MORE HP for PCNC


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    Default MORE HP for PCNC

    I have one of the early machines, 2007 i think, updated spindle drive years ago, I have worked it hard over the years but it has always lacked in the metal removal rate. The machine frame itself seems capable of taking out more meat from a block of aluminum.
    So, I need a hotrod project and switching out the 1.5 - 2 hp motor for 5hp pullys/belt etc. and the corresponding VFD seems a fairly doable venture.
    I was wondering if anyone has already done something like this and what was the experience like?

    jh

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    Registered tmarks11's Avatar
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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    The Gates Heavy Duty V Belt Drive Design manual shows that a "A" V-belt section will transmit about 2.2 HP per belt for a minimum pulley OD of 3" at 1750 RPM.

    This means you will have to replace the V belts. I would recommend a poly-v or multi-v belt, like this:

    Micro-V

    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3 mill, Grizzly G0709 lathe, PM935 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.


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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    I've looked into a 3HP motor on my 770. The only immediate issue that I perceived was fitting the motor in the head, but I've found a few models that should work.

    - Can the Z stepper lift the new motor?
    - Can the Z stepper hold the motor in place against the cutting forces (up/down cut force)?
    - Can the X/Y steppers provide enough force to properly keep a 5HP motor engaged in the cut?
    - Will the (lack of) rigidity of the table translate to poor finishes or poor accuracy in the final part when using 5HP cuts?

    I've sufficiently convinced myself that the 770 could take a 3HP upgrade, and it would significantly benefit roughing times. No plans to make the jump though, but would love to hear about someone trying it!
    --Bryan



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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    As long as you don't want to use TTS it might be doable. I think TTS would have large pullout problems with more HP.



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    Gold Member mountaindew's Avatar
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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    I would enjoy following a build like this. Machine mods are sometimes complex endeavors.
    I'm a Jeep owner and love to do modifications. I need larger tires for more clearance. Then lift suspension so tires clear body. Looks like lower gears would fix the low power problem caused by larger tires. Darn now that I lifted the suspension the short trailing arms change geometry to much during use and cause ill handling, time for long arm suspension. Ok looks like the drive shafts are now being stressed because no longer at oem angles better swap them for some splined hd units. Brakes no longer slow down big tires and un-sprung weight, those need to be enlarged to be safe. This can turn into a never ending but interesting story,
    md



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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    I would enjoy following a build like this. Machine mods are sometimes complex endeavors.
    I'm a Jeep owner and love to do modifications. I need larger tires for more clearance. Then lift suspension so tires clear body. Looks like lower gears would fix the low power problem caused by larger tires. Darn now that I lifted the suspension the short trailing arms change geometry to much during use and cause ill handling, time for long arm suspension. Ok looks like the drive shafts are now being stressed because no longer at oem angles better swap them for some splined hd units. Brakes no longer slow down big tires and un-sprung weight, those need to be enlarged to be safe. This can turn into a never ending but interesting story,
    md

    We used to do this kind of thing with cars in the old days............

    I always like to buy a bigger machine than what is needed and run it at half throttle, it will last much longer like that.

    I have modded my Tormach quite a bit, but it was a matter of taking what was there and improving on it, at least in my own mind ha!

    mike sr


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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    To be honest an extra 1/2 to 3/4 HP reserve on my PCNCs would get me over the slow drilling hump that I run into on occasion. I would assume that would not be that difficult to pull off minus mounting and drives. Someday when I have some time to tinker I might have to look at it. Until then have fun Hot Rodding! MD nailed it though...just like modifying anything you will run into design constraints that you never saw, but overcoming them is where real innovators shine through.



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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    Ever wonder why the UUS Iowa with its 16" guns was so big? Because it needed to be to have 16" guns. 10 pounds of crap is about all that can fit in a 10 pound crap bag.
    Lots of fun to dream but impractical and it you need the HP then buy a machine that has 5 HP spindle. IMHO
    I think Shred hit the target dead center, I to don't think the TTS would hold up under 5HP and the chip load this would mean.



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    Gold Member Steve Seebold's Avatar
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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    When I first got my machine, I thought 2 or 3 horsepower would be great. but now I think 3 horsepower, would just destroy the machine. It's not rigid enough for that much power.

    I have learned to remove amazing amounts of material even with only 1.5 horsepower with absolutely no cutter pull out, so I'll stick with what I have.

    I can use a 3/4 inch end mill to cut a 6 X 6 X 1.5 inch deep pocket and I won't have any cutter pullout, and I can do it in about 10 minutes.

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    Yes indeed it does open a can of hotrod, one thing always leads to another, yes, motor, then pulleys, then belt, drive ratios, packaging the whole thing on the spindle head, then VFD, then tuning, then a higher flow coolant pump and lines, etc. etc. but much cheaper than buying a used CNC and maintaining it. The max cut I've been able to achieve is 3/8 wide x .200 deep at 3850 rpm and 17 imp, that taxes the motor to about its foldback logic, any higher rpm and the torque goes south fast, any higher chip load and the motor bogs again, this is using a real good coolant and a Viper destiny high helix 2 flute in 6061-t6, if the cutting gets into a resonance when stepping doing a helix ramp into a deep cut the meter goes yellow and can bog down immediately but as long as the cut load begins smoothly and chips are flooded away that is all it can handle.

    from experience it seems that the machine is stout enough to handle more cutter load as long as the motor can keep the endmill turning through the chip load. A bit of machine flex during roughing is tolerable because the finish cuts will cat away the sins, in theory. That and the increased rpm and HP could also equate to more feed rate. I'm sure there is a threshold where steps could be lost but I'm pretty confident there is much more material removal possible with the machine. I used to do machine design, automated type, Tormach as a manufacturer has to be conservative so that 99% of the user base will be successful which means a fair amount of reserve I imagine.

    I did notice coolant makes a world of difference, I was using Cimcool Cimperial 1070 recommended to me by my CNC guru, about $130 a pail, went cheap and bought some Hangsterfers s500 the next time and I had to reduce my feed rates by 20%, that was a shock!

    As far as loosing steps I'm also seriously considering upgrading to leadshines hybird steppers that have feedback
    Pushing the limits will loose steps but usually the spindle motor will bog down first so these drives would be a nice insurance. My guesstimate is the z drive would be ok as z movement is typically less stressful compared to x and y
    Hey, its not like it will throw a rod out of the block

    So no one has tried this yet?



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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    Oh, and yes, a spindle upgrade to BT30 should be in order. The only time Ive had a problem with TTS is with chatter, that yanks them out fast if not caught. So good point, the added work of the cutter would probably make the TTS the weak link here.
    Oh, and the idea is not to use a 5 hp all the time, but to have a nice fat reserve when needed.



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    Default Re: MORE HP for PCNC

    Quote Originally Posted by johnh View Post
    Oh, and yes, a spindle upgrade to BT30 should be in order. The only time Ive had a problem with TTS is with chatter, that yanks them out fast if not caught. So good point, the added work of the cutter would probably make the TTS the weak link here.
    FWIW, with adequate drawbar tension, you'll never get pull-out with 1.5HP. I routinely cut up to 1" deep, 0.05" width, up to 150 IPM, and have never once had pullout, even with severe chatter - bad enough I had to wear ear protection. Increase your drawbar tension, and I believe TTS will handle anything the machine frame can handle.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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