VFD and Spindle cable and routing

[naspc]

I will check what is installed. I am already in contact with the dealer I purchased the spindle from.

[mactec54]

Saying this has nothing to do with post #18 just shows your lack of knowledge. How can you have only 2 lines and have a 120v and 240v connection without sharing 1 of the lines. DEDICATED lines for the inverter= 2 120v line =1 ground , neutral. Total of 5 wires.

You can't even count or know how many wire make a 240v 120v Supply, when you wire a Cabinet/ Enclosure using Single phase like this, you wire so the system is balanced

[Dan911]

Your so childish. Its right above you in my quote... What I forgot you didn't learn yet. I go back to work on Monday you can have the sandbox all to yourself than.

One of the reason for a total of 5 wires opposed to your 4 is to have balance volts to the inverter.

[naspc]

I appreciate everyone's help.. Obliviously every one here is passionate and knowledgeable about the topic. Everyone's views are welcomed. Obviously not everyone is gonna agree. When this happens these views should be discussed. This is what the forum is about. I apologize in stirring up the bee's nest.

MacTec I will PM you tonight. Thank you.

[mactec54]

Your so childish. Its right above you in my quote... What I forgot you didn't learn yet. I go back to work on Monday you can have the sandbox all to yourself than.

One of the reason for a total of 5 wires opposed to your 4 is to have balance volts to the inverter.

So you are saying you would have to have 3 Hot wires to make a Balanced, System for Single Phase use, ( Good Luck With That ) where are you going to get the 3rd Hot wire from to balance a System that only has ( 2 Hot wires )

We are talking about Single Phase not 3 Phase

So for as long as VFD Drives have been manufactured, you are saying every Machine Builder that has been using a VFD Drives, wired for Single Phase use ( Some Have More than one VFD ) , are wired incorrect, Even machining Centers that run on Single Phase they only do it with 240V Single Phase 4 Wire Supply, and they run the whole machine, even new machines that Haas and others build, you need to tell them they are doing it all wrong

I don't think anyone cares at all what you do, your Contribution here and other posts have not helped anyone

[naspc]

[Dan911]

So you are saying you would have to have 3 Hot wires to make a Balanced, System for Single Phase use, ( Good Luck With That ) where are you going to get the 3rd Hot wire from to balance a System that only has ( 2 Hot wires )

No that is not what I'm saying, as usual you twist words in attempt to make them look foolish.

There's always more than 1 way to things and if you weren't so arrogant and insulting there would be 2 pages of useful info here instead for your antagonizing post.
.
I was suggesting to run a dedicated 240v line protected by its own circuit breaker to the VFR. Than a 120v line to his components. Now use your fingers and add the wires up.

My brother just purchased a cncrouterparts pro kit with nema34 plug and play electronics and plug and play spindle. I ran 5 wires to install 120v outlet and a 240v outlet like it required. Similar to my custom enclosure except I hard wired my feeds in enclosure.

You keep on posting how I repeat my post but obviously it takes a few times before you get it.

I don't think anyone cares at all what you do, your Contribution here and other posts have not helped anyone

You were just recently told by another member in another thread you argued with to" speak for yourself" nobody elected you to speak for others. I guess it didn't sink in.

Naspc, I sincerely apologize for flooding your thread with this nonsense and it won't happen again by me. Good luck with your machine!

[A_Camera]

Naspc: Connect the earth lug with that screw but make sure the surface is clean under it and that the sticker is removed before you start using the spindle, just like the label says: "REMOVE BEFORE MOUNTING".

[naspc]

A_Camera:. Thanks.. didn't realize the sticker said remove before using!
Since I will getting the recommended cable, ground and drain ground will I be able to route this cable along side the other cable through the drag chain? If not how would you route?

Star point ground: I have already wired up my stepper motors.
I didn't not ground the drains.
Can I extend the drains to a stair point ground?
Can I earth ground the machine chassis to the star point and attach the drain for each stepper motor to it? Or does the drain need to ground to the controller that attached to the star point?

Thanks.

[A_Camera]

A_Camera:. Thanks.. didn't realize the sticker said remove before using!

The motor will get hot, so no matter what the sticker says, every paper or plastic label must be removed. It will eventually fall off anyway because of the heat.

Since I will getting the recommended cable, ground and drain ground will I be able to route this cable along side the other cable through the drag chain? If not how would you route?

Thanks.

I don't know what you mean by recommended, the 16/4 AWG mentioned in this thread earlier is in my opinion too weak for a 2.7kW motor, but it is up to you. I think that the manufacturers recommend much stronger cable. I am using 1.5mm2 (15/4 AWG) for my 1.5kW and even that is a bit undersized.

Spindle motor cable should not share drag chain with the signal cables but many people don't care about that, and it may not cause any problems for you, I don't know. It is also not recommended to have the VFD near the control electronics, yet many people don't care and jam everything in small boxes with poor ventilation and it seems to work for most of them. Many people use solid state relays and proximity sensors or optical switches. I avoid those.

I am using mechanical limit switches and Modbus via RS485 to control the VFD. My VFD is not near the rest of the electronics, so for me I guess, it makes no difference, my spindle motor cable shares the same drag chain as the few control wires I run there. But if I'd use proximity sensors and digital outputs to control the VFD then I'd be more careful with the wiring and would probably not share drag chain between signal and motor cables. Many people complain about random errors of different kind and I think many of those can be avoided by careful cable routing and using the right dimension and type of cables. "Star earth" is a popular and simple advise, but that is not the answer to every problem. I know some people will disagree with me, but I can live with that.

[naspc]

The motor will get hot, so no matter what the sticker says, every paper or plastic label must be removed. It will eventually fall off anyway because of the heat.



I don't know what you mean by recommended, the 16/4 AWG mentioned in this thread earlier is in my opinion too weak for a 2.7kW motor, but it is up to you. I think that the manufacturers recommend much stronger cable. I am using 1.5mm2 (15/4 AWG) for my 1.5kW and even that is a bit undersized.

Spindle motor cable should not share drag chain with the signal cables but many people don't care about that, and it may not cause any problems for you, I don't know. It is also not recommended to have the VFD near the control electronics, yet many people don't care and jam everything in small boxes with poor ventilation and it seems to work for most of them. Many people use solid state relays and proximity sensors or optical switches. I avoid those.

I am using mechanical limit switches and Modbus via RS485 to control the VFD. My VFD is not near the rest of the electronics, so for me I guess, it makes no difference, my spindle motor cable shares the same drag chain as the few control wires I run there. But if I'd use proximity sensors and digital outputs to control the VFD then I'd be more careful with the wiring and would probably not share drag chain between signal and motor cables. Many people complain about random errors of different kind and I think many of those can be avoided by careful cable routing and using the right dimension and type of cables. "Star earth" is a popular and simple advise, but that is not the answer to every problem. I know some people will disagree with me, but I can live with that.

Does "motor cable" include steppermotor cable?
How do you feel about ferrite cores?

[Dan911]

It is also not recommended to have the VFD near the control electronics, yet many people don't care and jam everything in small boxes with poor ventilation and it seems to work for most of them. .

Yes. My old AXYZ 4 x 8 router had an enclosure in front and a enclosure on side the housed the inverter. Cncrouterparts does the same with a separate enclosure for there inverter. I followed with my build although my inverter is not in a enclosure but intend to do.

[mactec54]

No that is not what I'm saying, as usual you twist words in attempt to make them look foolish.

There's always more than 1 way to things and if you weren't so arrogant and insulting there would be 2 pages of useful info here instead for your antagonizing post.
.
I was suggesting to run a dedicated 240v line protected by its own circuit breaker to the VFR. Than a 120v line to his components. Now use your fingers and add the wires up.

My brother just purchased a cncrouterparts pro kit with nema34 plug and play electronics and plug and play spindle. I ran 5 wires to install 120v outlet and a 240v outlet like it required. Similar to my custom enclosure except I hard wired my feeds in enclosure.You keep on posting how I repeat my post but obviously it takes a few times before you get it

A VFD if wired correctly has to have it's own Fuses or MCSB, this is standard practice

Really and this gives you a balanced system, with having a dedicated line for your VFD it gives you a very poorly wired system, and could be unsafe for the user, it needs to be inspected by your local electrical inspector

It is obvious that you should not be wiring anything for anybody, with this mind set, and way of thinking

You don't need to apologize to anyone, we have already taken this off line, so you can continue to do and say what ever you like, it's just making you look more ridiculous the more you post

[A_Camera]

Does "motor cable" include steppermotor cable?
How do you feel about ferrite cores?

No, I meant spindle motor cable only. Stepper motor cable is not an issue since it is low voltage and low frequency.

I don't use any ferrite cores anywhere except on the USB cable.

...on the other hand, my VFD has built in EMC filter as well as my power supply. Filtering is important but ferrite core is not that efficient on it's own.

[CNCMAN172]

naspc,

2.7kW motor, should probably have 14/4 AWG wire for the cable to the VFD, 16 AWG is probably a little light.

You can run the Spindle cable with the low voltage for the limit switches and home switches provided they are all shielded and grounded properly. Look at many commercial routers like Multicam, AXYZ, and many others and you will see they are in the same wire tray that routes up to the spindle. Like many others have shared using EMI filters for the power coming into the VFD and the power going into the power supplies that power all the rest of the electronics is highly recommended. If you route them together and have not shielded them and grounded them correctly you will see the spindle will interfere with the lower voltage signals. A sample issue with you will see ESTOP on MACH3 start flashing as soon as you start the spindle. For this reason many people router the Spindle cable far away from low voltage, but taking all the appropriate steps for shields and grounds can avoid these issues. Best of Luck.

Russ

[Dan911]

A VFD if wired correctly has to have it's own Fuses or MCSB, this is standard practice

Really and this gives you a balanced system, with having a dedicated line for your VFD it gives you a very poorly wired system, and could be unsafe for the user, it needs to be inspected by your local electrical inspector

It is obvious that you should not be wiring anything for anybody, with this mind set, and way of thinking

You don't need to apologize to anyone, we have already taken this off line, so you can continue to do and say what ever you like, it's just making you look more ridiculous the more you post

Well since you took over his thread and answering for Naspc now, I guess I'll participate in flooding this thread 1 last time since you said its ok.

Once again your deliberate insulting statements are backed with nothing but your say so.

How I wired my enclosure or how to wire feeds to VFR was never asked. I would be happy to reply and supply pics if someone asked (besides you). I woulkd ask to see pictures of your DIY enclosure, but I'll probably get pics of another members work.

[mactec54]

One of the reason for a total of 5 wires opposed to your 4 is to have balance volts to the inverter.

These companies that offer Single Phase, operation/ wiring for there machines, I guess have it all wrong, By your idea of how it should be done

A photo attached is of one of my Haas machines that is Wired for Single Phase

This Powers the VFD Drive Spindle Motor 7.5Kw ( 4 Axes Drives) ( 3 ) 850W AC Servos, 4th Axes when being used, Oil Pump,Tool changer, Coolant Pump, Lights, Transformers, electronics and Computer, all from the ( 1 ) 240V Supply and is wired to Code

The way that you are wiring is not a Balanced system, is just the opposite very unBalanced

[Dan911]

LoL... a picture of your DIY enclosure. I knew I'll get a pic of some1 else work. When I go back to work on Monday I can post several pics of commercial machine enclosures also.

[naspc]

Lots of info to digest! Thank!

Does the EMC/EMI filter go before the VFD or after the VFD on the cable that goes to the Spindle.
Anyone using EMC/EMI filters can recommend one?

I found this one: AC Tech Lenze 508-120 EMC Filter - 20 Amps, 1