AXYZ router retrofit KFLOP

[VTX1800]

Hello Tom,
The other user referred me to the following URL for motors he is using:

High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Stepper Motor | Stepper Motor Driver | CNC Router | Laser Machine | 3D Prin

I did not notice a voltage specification for this item on the web page.
If you are certain the large power supply will be a problem I will look for a 24V unit and a 12V unit for the IO.

Regarding the proximity sensors:
Did you state the existing sensors will work if an additional 1 kOhm resistor is added to ground?

The sensing distance is 2.5mm.

I will look into an NPN sensor with the same physical dimensions.
Unless you can recommend an NPN sensor that will work with the KSTEP inputs?

Please advise,
Ted

[VTX1800]

Tom,
There is a 24V 14.6 amp 110 VAC power supply at CNC4PC.com

CNC4PC

Would this be appropriate?

There is a 12V 5 amp power supply at Mouser.com.

DRA-60-12 Mean Well | Mouser

Would this be appropriate?

Thanks,
Ted

[TomKerekes]

Hi Ted,

The other user referred me to the following URL for motors he is using:

High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Stepper Motor | Stepper Motor Driver | CNC Router | Laser Machine | 3D Prin

I did not notice a voltage specification for this item on the web page.
If you are certain the large power supply will be a problem I will look for a 24V unit

There is a motor manual with data sheet listed right at that link. His are 4.17V motors. Almost 3X higher than your motors which is why 48V would be more appropriate.

and a 12V unit for the IO.

If your Proximity Sensors are currently driven by 15V why not get a 15V Supply?

Did you state the existing sensors will work if an additional 1 kOhm resistor is added to ground?

Yes

There is a 24V 14.6 amp 110 VAC power supply at CNC4PC.com

CNC4PC

Would this be appropriate?

yes

[VTX1800]

Hello Tom,
Thanks for the update.
Your motor operating voltage assertion makes perfect sense now.
I will order the 24V and 12V supplies ASAP.

I have been busy looking for NPN alternatives for the proximity sensors and did not get back to the motor manual.

The good news is I think I found an NPN, normally open, direct replacement for the PNP sensors at automationdirect.com.

Regards,

Ted

[VTX1800]

Hello Tom,

The following URL is for the NPN proximity sensor model AE1-AN-2H.
The operating load is <=200 ma.
Is this appropriate?

http://www.automationdirect.com/stat.../prox8mmae.pdf

Thanks,

Ted

[TomKerekes]

Hi Ted,

Looks appropriate to me.

Regards

[VTX1800]

Ben,
I did some searching and found great prices on proximity sensors at
automationdirect.com.
Found a direct replacement for the original PNP normally closed item.
The new item is NPN and normally open.
Same physical dimension and connections. Only $21 each.

Thanks,

Ted

[VTX1800]

Hello Tom,
Still waiting for the rest of the components to start the installation.

Thinking about adding a 4th axis lathe head and tail stock accessory.
This would require an additional KSTEP board.
The router uses 4 steppers: X1, X2, Y, and Z.
These stepper motors are rated at 1.45V and 5 amps.
Your recommendation is to use a 24V, 350 watt power supply to the KSTEP board.

Observations:
If the stepper motor of the 4th axis is rated at 4.2V and 3 amps would this require a 48V power supply?
Therefore, a separate 48V supply can be connected to the second KSTEP board isolated from the 24V supply of the 1st KSTEP board.
Correct?

I have seen these 4th axis lathe accessories on Ebay but cannot discern the quality or identify the stepper motor specs.
Do you have a recommendation where to purchase this 4th axis hardware?
A trusted vendor?

Lastly, what CAD CAM software is designed to synchronize the 4th axis to the X and Z motion?
I looked into Vectric VCarve Pro and Cut3D and they do not provide this capability.

Any CAD CAM software recommendations from 4th axis users would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the effort.

Ted

[TomKerekes]

Hi Ted

If the stepper motor of the 4th axis is rated at 4.2V and 3 amps would this require a 48V power supply?

Yes a 48V supply would be more appropriate for a 4.2V motor. Lower supply voltage would work but torque would drop off at a lower speed.

Therefore, a separate 48V supply can be connected to the second KSTEP board isolated from the 24V supply of the 1st KSTEP board.
Correct?

Yes. They don't need to be isolated (they can still have a common GND).

I don't have any recommendations for Lathe heads or CAD software.

Regards

[bhurts]

Since you are rewiring and basically setting up a new system have you considered just buying new motors that will allow a larger power supply all around? I'm guessing you can get comparable or better motors that will work with a larger supply for a reasonable price. You should also be able to match the frame size so the only machine change would be the motors not the mounts or surrounding structure. Just a suggestion.

Ben

[VTX1800]

Hi Ben,
I thought of that initially but the motors are cleverly part of a spring tensioned transmission of sorts.
If something stalls the X or Y axis the drive gears disengage.
So I would like to leave these original if possible.

The original power supply was part of a connection board for the limits, Estop, assorted IO, and motor driver amps, and output to the motors.
There was a huge 40 amp full wave bridge diode on a heat sink and associated regulator and capacitors for the motor 45V supply.
A large 230 VAC toroid transformer with two outputs that fed the 45V, 20 amp, motor supply and a 12V IO power supply on that board.

The 4 stepper motor driver amps were Pacific Scientific 6410 units.
The KFLOP and KSTEP boards are going to replace a lot of wiring and the four amps.
Very impressed with these new designs.

Soon I will start the retrofit when I get the last components.
Still have to verify some inputs and outputs without schematics.

Best regards,
Ted

[VTX1800]

Hey Tom,
Got the last power supply in last week.
Tuesday ripped out the old electronics.
Wednesday installed new KFLOP/KSTEP boards, power supplies, breakout board and relay board.
Thursday finished wiring power supplies and connections to KSTEP.
KFLOP using USB power.
KSTEP isolated using separate 5V power supply.
Current jumpers are all in for each motor output. 5 amps.
Clamping jumpers A and B for 25 V clamp with 24 V supply.

Today I edited the InitStepDir3Axis.c program and added CH3
Due to original cable length the channels are wired as:
Z = Ch0 output Ch8
Y = Ch1 output Ch9
X2 = Ch2 output Ch10
X1 = Ch3 output Ch11

Ch2 is a slave to Ch3.
Slave gain = -1

Compiled and downloaded to KFLOP
Run Step Response utility.

Disconnected the belt drive from X1 and X2 to view operation.
They must turn X2 opposite to X1.

Started with X1 Ch3 on Step Response screen.
Blue graph looks great.
Motor does not enable.

Viewed Axis screen.
#3 enable is checked.
Tried uncheck then check.
Motor not actually enabled.

Used Digital IO screen.
Check Ch3 enable. State remains unchecked.
KSTEP board LEDS
+5V On
Motor Power ON
Enable OFF

Please advise,

Ted

[VTX1800]

Tom,
Follow up.
Digital IO panel.
I thought the state check box was an indicator.
I checked the state box and the motors are enabled.
Back to testing.

Since Ch2 is a slave to Ch3 how to test with Step Response utility?

cheers,
Ted

[VTX1800]

Tom,
Changed Ch2 to not a slave a tested with Step Response utility.
Successful.

The original AXYZ motors/transmissions resulted in the following stated calibrations:
Steps per inch.
X = 1273.28
Y = 1273.28
Z = 10000

Where are these calibration values entered into the channel configurations?

regards,

Ted

[VTX1800]

Tom,
Found the mapping requires the following for X2 slaved to X1
Z = Ch2 output Ch8
Y = Ch1 output Ch9
X2 = Ch3 output Ch10
X1 = Ch0 output Ch11

Regards,
Ted

[bhurts]

The steps per inch values are not used in k-motion.exe. You would enter those values in k-motion cnc in the settings page.

Ben

[VTX1800]

Ben,
I launch KMotionCNC and I do not see a settings page.
No buttons to go to a settings page.
No settings menu.
Where do you get to this page.
regards,
Ted

[bhurts]

At the top right of the screen there is a tool setup button. It is to the left of the gviewer button. Click it the click on the last tab. That tab will have your trajectory planner and axis settings as well as a few others.
See link to better understand.

Tool Setup Trajectory Planner

Ben

[VTX1800]

Ben,
Found it under tool setup/trajectory planner.
It took really weird values to move accurately.
thanks,
Ted

[VTX1800]

Tom, Ben,
All is going well and all the electrical signals are wired and visible on the Digital IO panel.
The X, Y, and Z channels are configured and the machine motion is verified running using the jog buttons on the KMotionCNC operator panel.
I started with the InitStepDir3Axis.c program and added channel 3 for the X2 axis stepper motor as a slave to X1. X2 gain set to -1 to reverse direction relative to X1.

I have made the following observations thus far:
1. I found in the help files the following lines of code were required in an Init program:
KStepPresent=TRUE;
FPGA(KAN_TRIG_REG)=4;
FPGA(STEP_PULSE_LENGTH_ADD) = 63 + 0x80;

The InitStepDir3Axis.c program did not include these lines so I added them.

2. The machine has a mechanical Estop switch that normally connects to ground. When Estop is hit by the operator the ground signal is opened.
I have attached this signal to pin 12 of KSTEP JP33 through a Winford 26 pin breakout board.
The signal is checked at Virtual/KSTEP bit 171 of the Digartal IO panel and blank when I hit Estop.

There are three new NPN inductive proximity sensors on the machine.
These sensors are the machine limits or Home sensors.
One for X axis at the extreme left of the machine table.
One for Y axis at the extreme front of the gantry that the head travels on.
One for Z axis at the top of the Z travel on the gantry head.
I have attached these sensor signals to the following pins of JP33 through the Winford breakout board:
X at pin 9 which is bit 168 on the Virtual/KSTEP Digital IO panel
Y at pin 10 which is bit 169 on the Virtual/KSTEP Digital IO panel
Z at pin 11 which is bit 170 on the Virtual/KSTEP Digital IO panel
12V at pin 8

These signals have been vertified to operate properly as seen on the Virtual/KSTEP Digital IO panel.
I would also like to use these Home sensors as limits for each axis.
However, when I use these signal bit numbers as Watch Limits on their respective axis configurations the manual jogging using the KMoptionCNC operator screen results in a Feed Hold hatch pattern after each jog press. I have to remove all Watch Limit check marks on each configuration to restore manual jogging without Feed Hold events.

3. Lastly, the AXYZ ToolPath software I am used to on the CNC router uses functions to set four important heights or locations based on the cutter in use and the physical material.
The surface of the material is set with the cutter in use.
A maximum depth for the cutter relative to the material surface.
A height above the cutter to clear clamps while traversing to the next object.
The X and Y job origin at the material surface in the lower left corner of the rectangular area that includes the material.

Does KMotionCNC have parameter values to accommodate these four job requirements?

Please advise,
Ted