Reply with QuoteDid you use a hydraulic press to push the spindle out? Must be different on the round bodies. such a pain in the assOriginally Posted by dwalsh62
Applies to 3KW square body spindle.
- remove 4 rear cap screws
- remove rear nylon cover
- remove fan
- remove 4 front cap screws
- remove collet nut and dust-cap
- remove rotor assembly
- install dust cap and collet nut on replacement rotor assembly
- insert rotor assembly
- install 4 cap screws and torque to specs
- install fan
- install rear nylon cover
- install 4 rear cap screws
Did you use a hydraulic press to push the spindle out? Must be different on the round bodies. such a pain in the ass
The rear two bearings are nothing more than radial rotor support, they are light interference fit in the retainer and serve no other purpose, the nose and rotor is a different matter, the bearings require considerable force to remove and when I remove them to return the nose and rotor to the manufacturer the bearings are destroyed in the removal process.Did you use a hydraulic press to push the spindle out? Must be different on the round bodies. such a pain in the ass
The water cooled round body spindles are very different, there is a bearing at each end in an internal body with integral stator and an external body with rubber seals providing the void for a water jacket and everything seems to be press-fit.
I have been to China and I have seen the bearings replaced in a 2.2KW water cooled round body spindle at a company (name withheld) and they did not rebalance the spindle and it did not appear to be out of balance, it did not appear to have any vibration and appeared to operate as intended.
There is a debate on whether the bearings affect balance, my opinion is they can and full balancing of the rotating assembly should occur for optimal performance.
Even though I could not feel any vibration in the spindle when it was tested, even the most minute off-balance which doesn't cause vibration can eat away a bearing by it's harmonic resonance and reduce it's life, using steel balls will take more force to damage than ceramic balls but doesn't eliminate the self inducing damage which makes my personal preference a spindle that has a balanced rotating assembly over one that only balances the rotor.
Upgrading to ceramic yourself sounds simple enough, replace steel with ceramic and you're done, well, not all ceramic bearings are made equal, I'm told the following is a general rule when ceramic bearings are involved.
An unclassified ceramic bearing should not be used in equipment requiring precision and balance.
Anything less than a ABEC-7 class ceramic bearings in a precision rotating assembly which exceeds 10K RPM or anything less than a ABEC-9 class ceramic bearing in a precision rotating assembly which exceeds 50K RPM is not recommended and is considered low quality equipment.
This is information passed on to me regarding ceramic bearings, I have not questioned the information in depth since general research tells me that there is some validity to the statements and the ratings of ceramic bearings and I have not performed any tests to verify the accuracy of the information or suggested recommendations.
CNCZone's VMC
The first pair of CNCZone VMC's are being cast around the 21st of Jan, 2011 so it shouldn't be much longer after that when they are shipped and it shouldn't take me more than three or four days to get the machine assembled and operational so I have a little anticipation happening.
Anyone have a technical drawing of the square, air-cooled spindles? I've seen pics from all angles but only one shot that included the back. It appeared to have 6 tapped holes but I had no way to dimension them.
one hole cetered top/bottom and left/right, overall length of body is 146mm.
39mm from top of body centered, 3 rows 45mm CC, 2 cols 30mm CC.
This information applies only to the 3KW square spindle (100mm x 90mm) which has a length of 260mm, the other cheaper 210mm long square spindle with smaller body (90mm x 82mm) is made by a different manufacturer and my technical drawings do not apply to it.Code:STICK-ART ____________________ | | | | | | | | | (+) (+) | | | | | | | | (+) | | (+) (+) | | | | | | | | | | (+) (+) | | | | | |__________________|
Last edited by dwalsh62; 01-13-2011 at 10:30 PM.
Drawing of the back face of the 3kw air cooled spindle
Thanks. I have tried to capture your dimensions below. From pictures the body appears narrower than it is deep, so I took the face dimension to be 146x90mm. I guessed at M8 screws so I dimensioned the holes at 4mm. I actually didn't include the center hole, but the center of the drawing is obvious anyway. From your ascii art I wonder if the 2 columns are meant to be 60mm apart (30mm from centerline) instead of 30mm?
Nope, columns are 30mm apart, I measured the actual spindle just to be safe.
Your drawing looks correct.
So guys! I would like to share my experiences with my cheap 1500W spindle!
I bought a 1.5kw water-cooled spindle-package which included:
Spindle
Water pump
Collets
Huanyang VFD
The seller was Linearmotionbearings2008 or just Linearmotionbearing
The package looked fine and most things worked out of the package. The earth-lead did however NOT work. We opened the back cover of the spindle and discovered that the ground lead was just put loose inside the cover, and was not fastened to anything. We did, and the ground worked perfectly.
Also, the spindle serial number was sanded away - which might suggest that the spindle was not obtained and sold legally.
When powered up it was nothing like silent. It had a terrible noise, and sounded just like a air-cooled one. Not that Im an experienced engineer, but it sounded like bad bearings.
My friend Vegabond bought a 2.2Kw from solar.jean, and we compared the two on sound: [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvw1U0QanAg"]YouTube - Wierd noice in my 1.5 kw chinese spindle.[/nomedia]
As you might hear on the video, theres a remarkable difference between the spindles!!
I confronted Linearmotionbearings with the problem and the video. He offered me to return it, and I would get a new one. I turned down the offer, as the shipping cost from Norway to China is over half the price of the spindle.
So as I have gecko540 I wanted to control the spindle from the computer/mach3. However the +10V-inputs on VFD was not working as it should, giving all sorts of faults (giving Volts to the gecko of 15-40V depending). And yes, I know how to do this, and did it according to manual.
Again, I confronted Linearmotionbearing with it, and I got the same offer. I declined for the same reasons.
Now after some 20-30 hours of total use, we we're routing some aluminium. Suddenly the spindle stops running in the middle of the program ****ing everything up as the rest of the router didnt stop.
However, after an inspection of the spindle, we tried to fire it up again under controlled conditions. It started as expected, and no deformaties of the axel was apparent from my excellent Eye Detector(tm). However I do not dare using it anymore - and I consider myself lucky nothing else actually broke.
So bottom line: Stay away from the spindles delivered by linearmotionbearings. Buy from some other (i.e. solar.jean).
However his offer to replace it was good, and I didn't expect anything more from the customer service part.
So a 2.2KW is on the way in the mail from solar.jeanI just hope the quality of his spindles are consistent, and I recieve a spindle of same quality as my friend Vegabond has.
Last edited by Vaffel; 01-14-2011 at 09:13 AM.
Vaffel,
The vendor twice offered you remedies, you turned them down, and now you slag him? I know the shipping costs are high but you ultimately accepted what you knew to be a defective product.
Not cool...
bob
I was expecting a reply like yours
There is a reason I told you about the sellers offers - and it is to give you the whole story. The sellers offer was more than anyone can expect from seller on the other side of the planet (at least from here).
I still believe people should be warned, as there was quite a few faults with the product - which can not be accounted for "just a bad copy". Aswell as the serial number was sanded off suggest that this might be something to stear away from.
I do tell you about his offers to commend his customer service. HOWEVER, I cant in any way reccomend his spindle package, based on MY experience with the product.
I can also share my impressions on the other stuff I bought from him:
A full set of axis screws with nuts - which was VERY pooly packaged for shipping, resulting in quite some chipping of both ends for all screws. And the nuts not giving smooth movement along the screw (of course after thurough greasing). Confronted with pictures, the seller did not offer anything.
If you don't like my (true) story about the product, aswell as my personal impressions, its fine by me
I would have been just as pissed off and also would not have paid 1/2 the price of the spindle just to ship it, since you have already been burned once ya know. Might as well buy from a seller you feel comfortable with. By reading the forum i do know that plenty of people have purchased from linear motion with no problems at all but i have read a few accounts of people getting bum spindles. It sucks, i cant believe they do not test them before they ship them out as pure courtesy. I would test them for leaks and have a break in test before anything left my shop. Then you would never have to deal with those dead on arrival issues if well packaged.
Here is mine if you wanna listen to it: (2.2kw though)
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJHf-v-cuas"]YouTube - Cnc Rebuild Video #35 Part II[/nomedia]
So when you tested your friends spindle VS your spindle you used the same VFD right? If you didn't it could be the VFD, although it did sound more mechanical you never know. Does it have any runout or slop? Still sounds decent at fullspeed. Just a weird noise..
I was expecting a reply like yours
There is a reason I told you about the sellers offers - and it is to give you the whole story. The sellers offer was more than anyone can expect from seller on the other side of the planet (at least from here).
I still believe people should be warned, as there was quite a few faults with the product - which can not be accounted for "just a bad copy". Aswell as the serial number was sanded off suggest that this might be something to stear away from.
I do tell you about his offers to commend his customer service. HOWEVER, I cant in any way reccomend his spindle package, based on MY experience with the product.
I can also share my impressions on the other stuff I bought from him:
A full set of axis screws with nuts - which was VERY pooly packaged for shipping, resulting in quite some chipping of both ends for all screws. And the nuts not giving smooth movement along the screw (of course after thurough greasing). Confronted with pictures, the seller did not offer anything.
If you don't like my (true) story about the product, aswell as my personal impressions, its fine by me
Ahh, thanks for the support
I totally agree about the pretesting. Should be quick and easy for the seller to do that.
We used seperate VFDs, as my was 1.5kw and his 2.2kw. But if we had thought about it, we could have used the 2.2kw VFD.
I don't believe that the VFD was the cause of noise - but then again, Im no engineer!
As for the slop, Im not sure. Im not getting completely circular holes when milling aluminium - but that might be due to bad quality endmills. As you might have guessed, Im quite new to this game
How do you usually measure the runout/slop?
Use a dial indicator clamped to something that wont move and let the plunger contact the shaft. Twist the shaft gently by hand and see if the needle moves at all.Ahh, thanks for the support
I totally agree about the pretesting. Should be quick and easy for the seller to do that.
We used seperate VFDs, as my was 1.5kw and his 2.2kw. But if we had thought about it, we could have used the 2.2kw VFD.
I don't believe that the VFD was the cause of noise - but then again, Im no engineer!
As for the slop, Im not sure. Im not getting completely circular holes when milling aluminium - but that might be due to bad quality endmills. As you might have guessed, Im quite new to this game
How do you usually measure the runout/slop?
The non circular holes could be caused by many issues. how out of round are your holes?
If you have a chance, you should retry it on his VFD just to make sure. At least it is something you can rule out.
Hi Vaffel,
The difference in the noise you're experiencing might be related to the fact that you're spindle is mounted to the machine, and the 2nd one is just placed on the table.
The vibrations of your spindle might be magnified by the router structure. It's like a guitar magnifies the sound of its strings.
You might wanna try to remove the spindle and then check the noise.
P.S about the VFD: If i'm not mistaken, I saw a thread here that one guy experienced lower noise when he changed the Chinese VFD to a "branded name" one.
I've used different types of Mitsubishi vfd's, and some of them do sound different (on the same motor driving the same lathe). So it could be worth trying the same vfd on both spindles.
CNC mill build thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/110305-gantry_mill.html
Yes, the vibrations in the cnc is important. However we fastened the 2.2kw firmly to the CNC aswell for a more precise comparison. However we didn't video record this. The 2.2kW made somewhat more noise when attached to the CNC, but still far from the 1.5kW.
Ill search for the thread about VFD and noise! Thanks for the tip
Bought a 2.2kw water cooled spindle from love-happy-shopping on ebay. Plugged it into an 0 to 80hz inverter. The inverter ramped up from 0 to 80hz, but at 20hz it stops and says over current. The inverter is only .75 HP but I figured I'd be way under that with no load. Also, motor gets slightly warm if I run it at 10hz for any significant amount of time. Is this because I'm running it too slowly? Is the motor supposed to run in a certain direction only?
Since I still need to buy an inverter, any recommendations?
Thanks,
Matt
Read a bit more in this thread and you will find a lot about inverters.
Any name brand ones are good. Mitsubishi, Hitachi, etc.
I have a Hitachi x200.
Read, read, read.
Well those spindles should never be run under 60hz...
And 2.2nd is 3hp so the VFD is way undersized .
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