Turret station can not be found Amada Vipros

[otrotabi]

If I try to use station T330 in our Vipros 2510C I get a shotpin error followed by a WDT error.

With the turret table rotating clockwise our turret has :

....
T328
T229
T330
T231
....

I am trying to troubleshoot this issue with a very simple program like this (Press select keyswitch is turned to OFF to avoid punching)

G90;
X2400. Y1100. T328;
G50;


G90;
X2400. Y1100. T229;
G50;


G90;
X2400. Y1100. T231;
G50;

All these small programs work fine.

However if I try to use station 330 the station turns, stops at where station 330 is supposed to be, tries to insert the shotpins and fails, and I get:

1080 SHOTPIN(ON) UPPER(IN) LS
1081 SHOTPIN(ON) LOWER(IN) LS

and after a few seconds:

NO 2039 W.DOG TIMER(TF TURRET)

If I turn to manual mode, clear the error and move the turret somewhere else, I can still run i.e

G90;
X2400. Y1100. T328;
G50;

So actually, the reference is not lost, and I could go ahead and run a program that does not use station 330.

I also tried manual mode and could find where the station 330 is (wrongly) detected, somewhere near station 208/309. I attach a picture where the real and the wrong position are sensed.

So actually the question is: how is station position determined or sensed ?



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[Jimmy49548]

All the other stations work well?

[otrotabi]

They do, I think. I must confess we are still newcomers into this business so we have not really used them all still.

I have kept on doing some further research and I think that either the encoder of the servomotor has an issue, or maybe there´s some parameter on the CNC side misconfigured telling the servomotor to go to a non-existing location. But as my father used to say, I may be pissing in the wrong direction. As of now I am just guessing what may be wrong.

[Algirdas]

could be a case when after axis commanded positioning movement there is a little unintentional move while clamping the axis. Can you observe some move with a clamp? Can you go step by step to be better focused exactly on this very moment?

[otrotabi]

Hello Algirdas, thanks for your feedback. I do not understand what you want me to do.

This is the mini-program I am running for testing:

G90;
X2400. Y1100. T330;
G50;

G50 is actually not executed because the pins do not come in in the "fake" T330 position the turret is located.

There´s actually not to much to step through... Did you experience a similar issue which hand something to do with the clamps ?

[Superman]

They do, I think. I must confess we are still newcomers into this business so we have not really used them all still.

So, is this a new machine (brand new or new to you) ?
Can the OEM give you info or direction, it could even be a fault, that they should rectify under warranty

[otrotabi]

I am afraid it is not the case... It´s a second hand machine.

And Amada service is reluctant to come because this machine was actually not sold by them, they were not representatives at the time this machine was originally sold (2007) so we are not in their customer´s list.

[Jimmy49548]

Those 2 issues are exactly what I was thinking. If all the other stations engage when and where they should, I would guess a parameter has been changed. What controller is being used?

[otrotabi]

As I said, we bought this machine second hand. So I am not 100 % sure this did ever worked but from how the die holder looks,I´m pretty sure it did. However, after buying it we had an issue with the servo valve and the guy who solved it (he only does hydraulics for bad luck) told me that the machine was sold in an expo and had a couple of things that make it sort of one-in-a-kind. I would not be surprised to find out someone messed up some CNC parameter.

I tried to locate the servomotor for the turret on my machine. It seems to be located in between the electrical cabinet and the turret near the floor. I guess for some reason Amada chose to put this in a rather inaccessible location. It looks like I should move the electrical cabinet to access it. If that is the case (and the encoder is faulty) I will learn to live with a 33 station turret instead of a 34 station.

Regarding the parameters, as with the rest of the knowledge, Amada does not give too much information, only the very basic. I only found this video of somebody showing how to access the parameters and how they are related to the tables that can be found in the electrical drawing, actually I would not know where to start. Do you have any idea of where to find information ?

[Algirdas]

try to update the position settings first. There are no indications about encoder or servo fault. The parameter most likely.

[otrotabi]

I agree. It would be very strange that the encoder was faulty for only one station. I believe the most likely issue is that the CNC is giving the wrong information.

Do you have any idea where to look ?

[norin1373]

Hi
If the machine can change every tool except T330, One of CNC parameters are wrong.
As you marked on the drawing, the difference is about 160 degrees. A faulty encoder behavior would mot be like this specially on only one station.
Is it fanuc 18-P?

[otrotabi]

Yes, the controller is a Fanuc 18i-PB.

I just double checked by running a small program 34 times -while changing the station number- that besides the T330 station the rest of the stations are correctly located.

[otrotabi]

So, I finally found out how to correct this issue. For our particular CNC which is a Fanuc 18i-PB, the procedure is documented on the operator´s manual B-63684EN/01 under tool function and tool register, though obviously intended to be understood by machine builders, because it is not quite straightforward to follow.

I will document it here for the future, should we ever experience this issue again in the future.

I may still have some missing pieces of how this works, but as far as I understand there´s a limit switch (in fact, I would say there are two of them, same principle as in the linear axis) located at whichever the "home" station is to be found. So when you home the turret, the servomotor finds the first limit switch, slows down, and then stops at the second limit switch. Then both index pins enter and they must both locate correctly for the homing process to finish correctly. This is assigned position 0.

If you press SET hard key, then "OFFSET" and "SETING" softkeys are displayed. If you press "SETING" and then "+" (the right most key under the screen) this screen is displayed:







According to the manual, for this controller up to 136 tools maybe registered, in our case there are 34 stations. I am not 100 % sure, but I think "Movement" as refered to in this screen means how many encoder pulses are received on a 360º turret rotation.

By pressing "+" again, 3 more softkeys are displayed, "T.NUM" , "T.CHG" and "T.CNT" as shown in the following picture. As you can see, each tool number is followed by a "Position", X-Offset and Y-Offset. Once again, I am speculating, but since our machine´s stations centers are not located at the same distance from the "Y" 0 position, the Y-Offset corrects this distance difference for each station.



To navigate the different screens, PageUp and PageDown keys are used.

So, our position for tool station 330 was set at 282917, while 328 which is quite near was set at 172084. But as you can see in the following picture, the setup for stations 332 and 334 are relatively the same as 328 and 330. So what I did was subtract station 332 position from 334 position, that gave me 10833 (pulses ?). I added that to 172084 to give me a position of 182917 for station 330.



Please be aware that Parameter Write must be set to 1 on the setting handy display to be able to change this. Also notice a reboot is needed, I tried to run a program using station 330 to test if the issue had been solved and I got alarm 4702 Overtravel.