Design & Build of Lanky - A Ozzie 8x4' long gantry router

[peteeng]

Hi All & Sundry - I'm pleased Lanky is on the move again. Finished LHS wall, paint it tomorrow and start the RHS wall after lunch. Temu is driving me crazy! There will be an aluminium plate on the top of the wall but I wait till I start the gantry to finalise that. Plus I get the R&P and rails on site for fitting. But I will lap the tops flat and level once the machine is in place. After the walls its the aprons and middle beam.... Peter

[peteeng]

Evening All - Tidied up a few things and cut the Aluminium top plate. Looks like the CAD model which is encouraging. Decided I'd paint them together so need to get the other wall built... Then I move it across to its proper place in the workshop... Scoot will be moved as well. Once Lanky is sorted Scoot will be sold so I can move onto the 5 axis build... Peter

[peteeng]

Hi All & Sundry - Have given LHS wall its first coat. The can only did a single light coat so will need to get more cans of paint. I have completed the RHS wall so onward to RED.

[peteeng]

Hi All - Been raining and high humidity not good for painting... Peter

[peteeng]

Hi All - I have decided to look at using servos on Lanky. I'd like to use Duet3D controllers anyone used these on a CNC? Peter

Duet 3 Mainboard 6XD | Duet3D Documentation

[peteeng]

Hi all - I reviewed my motor calcs today and will use 400W 60mm servos with 10:1 gearboxes. Thats the starting point anyway. That will give me 25m/min speeds and lots of grunt. I shall control these with the knighthawk or the Duet3-6XD controller. Researching the duet now...lots to learn. The pinion will be a 20T 1.25module type. The user interface is the big question mark... Duet have one so learning about that is next...Peter

[peteeng]

Hi All - I have also been reading up on Kflop and I think its a better system then Duet for CNC. Dynomotion has a thread in the forum very useful. It has very good motion control including jerk control for steppers and servos. Peter

https://www.cnczone.com/forums/dynom...kflop-kanalog/

[peteeng]

Hi All - I have been evaluating some motor systems, steppers and servos. All $$$ are in AUD.

Steppers first:

The simplest at $740AUD is a one box knighthawk (KH) solution. Simple to set up and works fine. I like the wireless connection and being able to use a phone to drive it....

Next $972 is a high voltage system using the Knighthawk card. I expect its a step up from the std KH.
Then at $1048 is the Kflop and Kstep. This would provide superior motion control to the KH-HV version and the price is not much delta so I think that's the winner out of the steppers. You get what you pay for...

Then the servo systems:
1) Using the KH plus external servo drivers comes in at $1627. This will give good motion control (not jerk limited as far as I can tell from the manual) and be fast
2) The dynomotion system is $1623 and gives so much better control over the motion, I'll go there...

Seems that Lanky is going servo.... Peter

edit - I'm thinking of getting the Kflop system with 3D printer module to convert Brevis to a printer as a learning curve exercise. Hmmm or is this more sideways work...

[peteeng]

Hi All - My paint saga is ending. Phew... I have come to the conclusion modern paints are formulated for rollers not brushes. I have always been a brush person. I even worked in the last paint brush factory in Australia for a little while. I stacked and supervised copy laths that made the pine handles while I was at uni. My father was a builder and I always liked the painters in their white overalls and helped while they tinted paint or decided it was too damp that day to paint so they went home, probably via the pub. So I've always had a "hand" in painting by brush. But over the years the paint has become stickier and even thinned down they don't do well. The brushes also have become stiffer and shorter then they should be... So Lanky's wall has been sprayed, then brush hammertoned, then brushed red, then rollered and the roller has been effortless and has covered well and is flat and looks good... One more coat and the small dark areas of the formply will be gone. It definitely needs a white undercoat to hide the black... I suspect if I roller the hammer-tone pint it will be good as well.

Then the next thing is not to paint again. But I think I'll have to paint the RHS so they match.... Plus instead of edge painting use edge banding tape... Maybe not build another ply machine !! Peter

[joeavaerage]

Hi peteeng,
before you go all out on servos, just buy one.....and experiment with it. I don't know what brand you are contemplating but the price suggests Chinese, I can smell the chop suey from here.
You need to get one and see whether you can tune it. I would be an expensive mistake to buy a bunch of them only to find you cant program and tune them.

Craig

[peteeng]

Hi Craig - I've always had good service from stepperonline. Their servos have tuning software and they answer my questions. In for a penny in for a pound. May as well have 4 to play with then 1.... and then there's the Kflop learning as well a double J curve.... I'll have to monitor my blood pressure for a couple of weeks as I learn (ie stumble, swear and poor sleep) hopefully its not that bad... Peter

[joeavaerage]

Hi peteeng,
remember your mothers advice....'look before you leap'.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
have FINALLY got my new spindle through customs, taken three months. Started with NZ Customs seizing the spindle, ie total loss, no compensation, no nothing, as a result of a false declaration to Customs
about the value of it. They wrapped me over the knuckles pretty hard but did in the end relent and release it. It would have been a real blow ($3330NZD) to lose it completely. I've just paid the GST (local NZ tax)
so should have it in a day or two.

Still have to save up and buy a VFD to suit, and as it requires to go to 1500Hz suitable VFDs are not cheap either.....or at least quality VFD's aren't cheap. I'm on to a second hand 11kW 400V Delta VFD in the US
for $499USD......which I think is OK.

Craig

[peteeng]

Hi Craig - I'm looking for an ISO20 ATC spindle for big router project I'm collaborating with... Nearly finished its concept Z axis assembly, then onto the saddle/gantry.... Customer wants the most advanced router possible, quite a scope... He has a nice large mandrel bender and wants to have a go at something like this gantry... and he has heat treat 30mins away so that hurdle is jumped.... Peter

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
there are plenty of ISO 20 spindles, mainly Chinese made. Jianken is a known brand and have been in the market for twenty years.

ISO 20 refers to the diameter of the taper at the spindle nose....and 20mm is not large, a fraction over 3/4 inch....mmmm. Additionally the the taper of ISO's is quite long, at least double its diameter
and the Z axis movement to have the taper and retainer knob clear the spindle is consequently quite long. In the case of an ISO 20 it 47.4mm. Thus 50mm of your Z axis travel must be retained just
so that it can clear the toolholder. As you already know increasing the Z axis travel, even by only 50mm, markedly increases the stiffness requirement of the saddle and gantry.

May I suggest an HSK25 tool interface. The taper section, ie the Z axis travel require to clear the taper is only 13mm, and there is no retention knob. This represents quite a saving in Z axis travel

HSK is a later development and is especially noted for its highspeed performance. Also the '25' refers to the diameter of the taper at the spindle nose and is somewhat larger and therefore more rigid
than ISO20.

My new spindle, pictured above is HSK32. As it is a 3.5kW (rated) spindle the extra diameter at the spindle nose reflects the increased transmitted torque. The downside of HSK is that the toolholders
are harder to find, and quality manufacturers units tend to be pricy, but the advantages (highspeed balance, increased rigidity cf ISO, reduced Z axis travel required for clearance) out weighed the cost
implications. When I found this spindle had an HSK32 tool interface, and from this supplier he supplied ten HSK32/ER20 toolholders I jumped at the chance.

Craig

[peteeng]

Thanks for that info Craig. I'll put in an enquiry for a HSK25 to see if they have it. Its my first ATC machine so a few unknowns to known to do....Peter

[pippin88]

If your Z axis has "fixed rails" (attached to gantry carriage) and cars move (attached to Z plate) up/down, then you don't have any stiffness penalty for increasing Z travel up to allow for tool length / tool holder length. Z can travel up above the bottom of the gantry.

Gantry walls / uprights only need to be as high as the maximum workpiece height.

IMO Z moving cars is better choice.

[peteeng]

Hi Pippin - In my design the Z axis rails are attached to the z axis plate. The Z motor is attached to the Z plate as well. In this machine I'm moving from an I beam Z axis to a tube. Initial FE says its 5x or 10x stiffer then my baseline designs. I'm happy with that. I'm also moving from 20mm rails to 30mm rails which is a step up in stiffness as well (and it removes the issue of the gutter). Lanky was to use my "std" design but I may move to the tube design as std. I need to get the walls finished and the gantry foundations done so I can move onto the gantry design finalisation. The paint saga has put me back a few weeks on the build.... Speaking of which I'm going the shed to do more Lanky painting...

Re: rails on saddle or on z axis. I have done it both ways and prefer how I do it now. Means the saddle is a "bracket" but this also means the spindle can be mounted closer to the gantry reducing its leverage. Plus it separates the saddle bearings for good access to bolts... Plus since the rails are on top of the gantry the saddle/z axis lands on the rails making assembly easier. Peter

In short I'm very happy with my current Z axis and saddle concept/design its scalable, proven to be easy to assemble and maintain and is very stiff. I did come to this solution myself but I have seen it since on the Mori M1. Would be nice to get the motor onto the saddle but haven't tweaked how to do that yet. Can do it with R&P but I think ballscrew is better for the Z drive. Peter

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I know you're not big on second hand but this looks very good indeed:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18637907875...3Avlp_homepage

Or if you want some more grunt then this second hand Jaeger 5.5kW, 40krpm HSK32 might spin your wheels.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18638084706...8AAOSwqHNlsg9i


Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
that secondhand Jager spindle is very close to the current model:

https://www.jaegerspindles.com/us/z-line/10405013-04#

If you have to ask how much....then you can't afford one!

The toolholders pictured are 'ERsystem' which if I'm not mistaken is a trademark of RegoFix, the Swiss company that invented ER chucks/collet. Still going today but
absolutely eye-wateringly expensive. I have three RegoFix collets, cost $25USD each, and tool holders start at $300USD. My servo spindle has a RegoFix 20mm cylindrical ER25
tool holder at it cost $450NZD nearly eight years ago. Beautiful.......but almost un-affordable.

Craig