Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

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Thread: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

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    Default Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    I'm looking into buying this guy: zenbot 4848 cnc router

    Have:
    Ample dust collection
    plenty of juice
    a table to put it on
    a pc with windows xp and plenty of space for the program to operate
    a cad program to create the drawings
    hold down material/clamping material
    router bits


    Need:
    zenbot 4848
    control box
    Mach 3
    cam software (I think I’m going with Aspire. Not sure yet. Needs to cut 3d reliefs.)
    Spindle (I think I’m going with the Dewalt 611)
    dust collection accessories
    will probably need various sizes of collets


    So there it is. I see the Dewalt 611 runs at 16,000-27,000rpm. Do I need to buy any hardware to slow it down for cutting plastics, etc?

    My friend suggested I need this:

    "You will need something to generate the step and direction pulse. I use a smoothstepper from Home" True?

    Thanks for your feedback!

    Cheers,
    Lee

    Similar Threads:


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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 007lab View Post
    I'm looking into buying this guy: zenbot 4848 cnc router

    Have:
    Ample dust collection
    plenty of juice
    a table to put it on
    a pc with windows xp and plenty of space for the program to operate
    a cad program to create the drawings
    hold down material/clamping material
    router bits


    Need:
    zenbot 4848
    control box
    Mach 3
    cam software (I think I’m going with Aspire. Not sure yet. Needs to cut 3d reliefs.)
    Spindle (I think I’m going with the Dewalt 611)
    dust collection accessories
    will probably need various sizes of collets


    So there it is. I see the Dewalt 611 runs at 16,000-27,000rpm. Do I need to buy any hardware to slow it down for cutting plastics, etc?

    My friend suggested I need this:

    "You will need something to generate the step and direction pulse. I use a smoothstepper from Home" True?

    Thanks for your feedback!

    Cheers,
    Lee
    The single speed equivalent of the Dewalt 611 is the Porter Cable 450 which may be a better choice. 16,000rpm is too fast for cutting plastics so you will need an external speed controller. Typically that will require modifying the router to disable the variable speed control circuit and disabling any 'soft-start' feature. For more info look over this thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/want-t...-software.html

    You will probably want to order your zenbot 4848, spindle mount, G540 4-axis control box & Mach 3 ...all from Zenbotcnc. If you go with a Porter Cable router, check with Shaun/Zenbotcnc to get the correct mount.

    Assuming your PC is adequate in terms of processor speed, video resolution, & IO, you can use the tool paths generated by Aspire (or VCarve-Pro, etc.) to run the job within Mach3 on your PC once it that has been properly configured to work with the Gecko G540 and your Zenbot. Check the discussion thread on "Mach3 Configuration" at the Zenbotcnc forum for more info. See: Mach3 Config

    HTH.

    --Rich



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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    Just to make sure I understand correctly, in my list I put "control box", by which I meant the Gecko G540 as posted here: Gecko g540 4-axis control box
    Does this have this item referred to as a "smooth stepper" within it? If not, do I actually need this extra item?

    I'm curious about the cutting accuracy available on the zenbot. I saw somewhere a person said they were able to get .001. I'd be happy with .003. Lol. I understand I'll have to tinker with stuff to get the right feed rates and such, but what's the best I can hope for on a repeatability scale cutting 3/4" birch ply or mahogany?

    Any reasons other than plastic to get a super-pid? I'll be getting one for that, even though I'll be cutting wood mostly. What else is it beneficial for?

    Because I'm getting slow with age I'm not yet understanding the difference between some of the Vetric software. Once I get messing with it I become quite proficient, but it's hard for me to tell the difference between Aspire, VCarvePro, etc. Looked at the vids last night. I can see some are scaled down. Can you point me to a thread that clears up the difference?

    Thanks for your info! I looked through what you sent and I'll be referring to all of it when I start setting up my machine. I have about 3-4weeks before I know I'll be able to get it so I'm doing all the info gathering now.



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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 007lab View Post
    Just to make sure I understand correctly, in my list I put "control box", by which I meant the Gecko G540 as posted here: Gecko g540 4-axis control box
    Does this have this item referred to as a "smooth stepper" within it? If not, do I actually need this extra item?
    You don't need a smooth stepper. This assumes that you can connect your computer to the G540 via a parallel interface. The Gecko G540 connects to your computer via the parallel port and includes the cables from the G540 box to the motors on the zenbot, making it pretty much plug & play. If you have a newer computer, you may need to add a parallel port card.

    You need to ask Shaun about the length of the G540 motor cables. He may need to make them longer for you, depending on where you can locate the G540 relative to where the PC will be situated. He can guide you about the length of the parallel cable which must typically be 16-feet or less, without some type of extenders. Since you are getting a 48x48 machine you need to give thought to where the router, control box and PC will be located and the path for power and related cables.

    I'm curious about the cutting accuracy available on the zenbot. I saw somewhere a person said they were able to get .001. I'd be happy with .003. Lol. I understand I'll have to tinker with stuff to get the right feed rates and such, but what's the best I can hope for on a repeatability scale cutting 3/4" birch ply or mahogany?
    It is hard to answer this without knowing more about the size of pieces you plan to cut, and the layout you plan to use. I have a 12x16 Zenbot and I tend to cut jobs 'one-up' using a fixture to hold the work blank. Cutting lots of small objects out of a large sheet ('multi-up') is something I have no experience doing. My experience has been that when you dial in the proper speed/feed for the material being cut, repeatability and accuracy are very good. If tool changes are involved you will need to be careful with cutting order ...and use some type of indexing pin for zeroing axes.

    Any reasons other than plastic to get a super-pid? I'll be getting one for that, even though I'll be cutting wood mostly. What else is it beneficial for?
    I use a SuperPID speed controller with my router. An advantage is that I can tell precisely what the spindle RPM is, unlike cheaper alternatives that are set to a 'relative' RPM by ear. The SuperPid also uses a feedback loop to maintain the RPM under an operating load. If it is in your budget and you can build it (it is a KIT) ...and make the modifications to your spindle that might be required, then I'd recommend it, Check with: www.SuperPID.com - Super-PID Closed-loop Router Speed Controller ...to find out what is involved.

    Depending on your electrical capabilities you might be able to add motor control to your Zenbot using Mach3. You may find that is alot more work than simply using a SuperPID.

    Because I'm getting slow with age I'm not yet understanding the difference between some of the Vetric software. Once I get messing with it I become quite proficient, but it's hard for me to tell the difference between Aspire, VCarvePro, etc. Looked at the vids last night. I can see some are scaled down. Can you point me to a thread that clears up the difference?
    It depends on *if* you will be cutting true 3D projects. If you are cutting mostly 2D and 2.5D then VCarvePro is your best bet. If you later need to cut 3D projects, Vectric will give you an upgrade path to Aspire *or* you can purchase Cut-3D and get a 3D CAD like Cubify Designer or similar so you can generate .STL files and cut them using Cut-3D or include them in a VCarvePro job. Simplistically, if you buy Aspire you will have a full set of 3D design and machine tools. VCarve is a sub-set of those tools.

    BTW, all Vectric software is available for a FREE TRIAL so be sure to try the products out and see how they work with your PC hardware. See: Vectric Ltd - Trial Software ...for downloads and check out: Products - Software Comparison ...for a product comparison.

    If you haven't already done so, you should check out the Zenbotcnc forum and as soon as the order has been placed for your 48x48 you should sign up for the Users Group at: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/UZUGR_CNC/info ...where you can get some help getting started.

    HTH.

    --Rich



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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    How long do you think it would take for the zenbot to cut out these shapes from the two sheets I've attached pictures of below? It's 3/4" birch ply. Both measure 35"x48".

    Thanks very much for your feedback! It's quite helpful.

    Cheers,
    Lee

    Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?-screen-shot-2015-02-13-9-54-a
    Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?-screen-shot-2015-02-13-9-53-a



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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    Hi Lee --

    Quote Originally Posted by 007lab View Post
    How long do you think it would take for the zenbot to cut out these shapes from the two sheets I've attached pictures of below? It's 3/4" birch ply. Both measure 35"x48".
    If you haven't already done so, you should download the trial version of Vcarve Pro from: Products - VCarve Pro

    You will be able to load your DWG files and step through the process of creating "tool paths" and tool path "previews" without actually having to run the job or having a machine to run it on. If you the select tools that you expect to use, it will also provide a fairly accurate estimate ot the run time for each tool path and the total run time for the job. If you need help determining the speed and feed settings you can use the on-line calculator found at: FSWizard - Free Advanced CNC Speed and Feed Calculator

    If you have other tools in your shop, you might want to think about doing the job in a different way. A bench or radial arm saw will produce 'blanks' from which the actual parts will be cut faster than cutting them out using only CNC from a single large sheet. If you cut them out on a CNC router, tabs will be needed, which will require some minor hand finishing at the end of the job.

    It might be better to use the CNC router to produce 'part templates' that will be used to produce the actual parts on a router table, for example. This would make the runtime required to produce a set of templates less important, and allow actual parts to be produced accurately and the fastest speed.

    Looking at your drawings, most parts have 3 straight sides and one contoured side, with a couple of holes in each. On Sheet1 4 parts (lower left) have been nested so that contoured sides might be cut on a single pass. Other parts might be similarly grouped allowing them to be also cut from a 'blank' where straight edges are are cut using a saw, does that make sense? That might minimize material requirements and speed the process, especially important if you plan to make a batch of the same item.

    I mention this because, if you think about the jobs you plan to do, you might not actually need as large a format CNC router, saving both space and cost. Generally, I'd say imagine the largest single part or "parts blank" you expect to cut and size your system to that.

    HTH.

    --Rich



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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    The items in my drawing are router templates. The parts need to fit together with zero gaps which is why I don't cut them out with a jig saw and file or sand to the line. I'm too busy to sit and file for hours when I know there's a better way.

    The only thing I wonder about running it through V carve is that with the zenbot one is using something like a 1.25hp router, so you can only force it to go so fast. I'm sure my 2.25 hp router would cut faster. It's just that since I have no experience seeing how fast a machine that small can cut out parts as I have nothing to base it on. Can you tell Vcarve how small a spindle you're using so it knows how much that thing can be loaded up before it burns out?

    The person I know who has a zenbot said it'd take 4 hours. That seems like a really long time, and I wonder if he was being too careful with the depth of each pass.



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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    Can you tell Vcarve how small a spindle you're using so it knows how much that thing can be loaded up before it burns out?
    You specify the feedrate and depth of cut.
    It's not smart enough to figure out what your machine is capable of.

    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

    Hi Lee --


    Quote Originally Posted by 007lab View Post
    The items in my drawing are router templates. The parts need to fit together with zero gaps which is why I don't cut them out with a jig saw and file or sand to the line. I'm too busy to sit and file for hours when I know there's a better way.

    The only thing I wonder about running it through V carve is that with the zenbot one is using something like a 1.25hp router, so you can only force it to go so fast. I'm sure my 2.25 hp router would cut faster. It's just that since I have no experience seeing how fast a machine that small can cut out parts as I have nothing to base it on. Can you tell Vcarve how small a spindle you're using so it knows how much that thing can be loaded up before it burns out?

    The person I know who has a zenbot said it'd take 4 hours. That seems like a really long time, and I wonder if he was being too careful with the depth of each pass.
    I don't normally cut 3/4" plywood, but I would expect that I would use a pass depth of no deeper than 1-ply. That means something like 8 to 10 passes. The more passes required the longer it will take to run the job. My guess would be that it will run 3 to 4 hours. Send me your DWG files and I will run a simulation for you for more accurate estimates. Still, routing the straight cut areas is going to take alot longer that it would take to cut them on an arbor/table saw.

    The depth of cut has less to do with a lack of power than obtaining better accuracy. Many Zenbot users are running Hitachi m12vc routers. One of the advantages is better bearings, but it is also heavier, and generates more inertia forces during rapid moves. The lighter duty 1.25 hp routers offer a good trade-off. Unlike hand or table routing, you can't muscle through the job at full depth. Forcing the cuts is likely to result in deflection, slipping over steps, etc.

    Personally, I use a Bosch Colt, but a Bosch PR10E, Dewalt 611 or Porter-Cable 450 could also be used, and have plenty of power for the light cuts required.

    HTH.

    --Rich



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Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?

Items I need to buy not included in Zenbot 4848 kit?