Speed Control For SX3 ? - Page 4


Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 136

Thread: Speed Control For SX3 ?

  1. #61
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    13
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    rwskinner:

    I just looked at the Surplus Center and could not find your motor. Do you remember the part number or some other identifying number?

    Thanks, BBox



  2. #62
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1632
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0


  3. #63
    Registered
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    13
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    rwskinner:

    Thanks! I just ordered one.

    bbox



  4. #64
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    50
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I also have the SX3 issues that many of us have encountered though i do like Cornbinders revision but just not sure on the weight factor considering i do quite a bit of 3d Z moves, I am very interested in the AMC drive possibility sounds like that would be a great fix for the whole scheme considering there is nothing wrong with the power of that brushless dc motor besides replacing bearing it would awesome.



  5. #65
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    washington state usa
    Posts
    724
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Upgrading the controller is a good idea as the BLDC motor that is in the SX3 is a great little powerhouse, as long as you can incorporate mach control, and the price is right

    Really the weight is not an issue, I forgot to mention that I also had a 4" pancake air cylinder mounted on the head while running at 200 ipm which is actually 6" dia. and 4" tall with .75" endplates and weighs probably another 5-10 lbs. , I have run several 3d (CUT3D trial files) programs and had no issues whatsoever.

    Not having to make a motor mount and keeping the motor tucked into the head is nice too.
    I guess it all comes down to personal preference, but I just wanted to make sure you know that weight is not an issue. Any which way you go, replacing the stock bearings is a good idea and not very difficult with tools available
    I kinda got lucky though as I only needed to order 1 bearing, as I have 1000's of different bearings in stock at work.
    Good luck to you Vatorman!

    JTCUSTOMS

    "It is only when they go wrong that machines remind you how powerful they are."
    Clive James


  6. #66
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    24216
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vatorman View Post
    I am very interested in the AMC drive possibility sounds like that would be a great fix for the whole scheme considering there is nothing wrong with the power of that brushless dc motor besides replacing bearing it would awesome.
    I believe the original controller monitored the Commutation pulses for speed detection and control, I am thinking that with with the AMC, one of the Pulses could be intercepted and fed back to Mach, as I believe there is a spindle input to close the spindle loop?
    Anyone confirm this?
    The AMC has analogue speed monitor output only.
    It is a 8 pole motor, which gives four commutation pulses/rev for each of the 3 comm. devices, so it would require scaling, possibly with the Mach belt ratio screen?
    Verrry Interesting.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  7. #67
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    92
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default My AMC controller is in

    The controller arrived Friday just as I was headed out for the long weekend, so I haven't had an opportunity to look into this yet. I also discovered there was no connector supplied with the drive, so I had to order one from Mouser - according to the USPS tracking it is out for delivery today. So I should be able to tear into it this weekend.

    Al_the_Man, did I gather in a previous message that you had found a Sieg motor? Or do you still need me to try to measure the commutation pulses to get a pole count? If I remember correctly, you said to disconnect the 3 motor drive connections but leave the rest of the Grizzly drive connected so the hall effects are powered and count the pulses per revolution.



  8. #68
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by devers6 View Post
    The controller arrived Friday just as I was headed out for the long weekend, so I haven't had an opportunity to look into this yet. I also discovered there was no connector supplied with the drive, so I had to order one from Mouser - according to the USPS tracking it is out for delivery today. So I should be able to tear into it this weekend.

    Al_the_Man, did I gather in a previous message that you had found a Sieg motor? Or do you still need me to try to measure the commutation pulses to get a pole count? If I remember correctly, you said to disconnect the 3 motor drive connections but leave the rest of the Grizzly drive connected so the hall effects are powered and count the pulses per revolution.
    devers6 - Thanks for keeping us all in the loop on this. I'm eagerly looking forward your "pioneering" work in this as I am sure others are.

    Good Luck!
    Lewis



  9. #69
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    24216
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I got hold of a motor and dug out a 20A25 that needed a bit of attention, fixed it and eventually hooked it up and it appears to run OK in both Torque and Hall Velocity mode.
    I have to check the rpm but it appears to run up to max with a battery box.
    The motor is a 8 pole fortunately so low rpm resolution appears the same as the original drive.
    I don't have a machine or Mach to do any intensive tests, If requiring both manual and Fwd/Rev with Mach could mean a little relay logic to switch between the two.
    The analogue in is slightly different than a VFD which is single ended, the AMC has ±10vdc differential, but it should be capable of being used by the usual BOB PWM to Analogue VFD control.
    A bit more testing to do.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  10. #70
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    92
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I am not looking for Fwd/Reverse at the moment - just getting it to run under Mach speed control and start/stop will be fine. I may want to allow reversing later so it would be interesting to figure out what external switching would be required.

    I will set it up initially with the 2 9 volt batteries you suggested and a manual pot. I have the Geckodrive G540 which has some kind of voltage output, I suspect it is single-ended. I assume 0v will set it about in the middle of the speed range, and -10v will be lowest RPM and +10v highest RPM (or vice versa).



  11. #71
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    92
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Correction to above:

    After reading the drive manual, it appears that 0-10v will give you full range in one direction. +/-10v gives full range in both directions, with 0v being 0 RPM. Do I have this right?



  12. #72
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    24216
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by devers6 View Post
    Correction to above:

    After reading the drive manual, it appears that 0-10v will give you full range in one direction. +/-10v gives full range in both directions, with 0v being 0 RPM. Do I have this right?
    Correct.
    I can sketch something up for a suggested method of getting reverse and manual option maybe.
    In the case of just running one direction, you just need to connect a BOB that supplies the 0-10v, using the common to the ref - in and the analogue to the ref + in.
    For bi-directional control, the two BOB signals would have to be reversed.
    The Enable input should be used to turn the drive off when not in use.
    The logic for this can be reversed by internal jumper so that it is closed to run rather than default open to run, a little safer this way.
    I will try and 'scope one of the hall signals to find out the RPM I am getting.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  13. #73
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    92
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Encouraging results, but some issues

    I spent a good portion of Saturday trying out the AMC B25A20AC drive with the stock Grizzly motor. Good news is that at the end of the process, the motor turns in both directions and is adjustable by a pot controlling +/- 10v; so it is likely an easy thing to hook it up to the Gecko G540 0-10v for variable speed under Mach3 control. Less good news is that top speed seems to be significantly lower than the stock drive. I don't have an external tach (and the internal tach doesn't work anymore) so I don't know what the top RPM is, but it seems quite slow as compared to what I could remember the original motor drive sounding like. My guess is roughly 30%-50% of the stock drive speed.

    It's possible there are adjustments I haven't yet made that can bring up the RPM; so I'm hoping Al_the_Man can give me some ideas. One troubling possibility that I wondered about at the outset is that the Grizzly motor is advertised as a 230v motor (even though the mill is 110v). The Sieg/Grizzly driver is called a "Motor Power Supply/Inverter", and maybe it produced an output voltage higher than the power input. I wonder if the reason why I'm not getting full RPM is that I am running the motor at half voltage?

    Here are the hookups I made (referencing the Grizzly wiring diagram at the end of the online manual here):
    http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g0619_m.pdf

    Grizzly Wires >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AMC P1

    Yellow (Hall Sensor A) >>>>>>>>>> Pin 12 (Hall 1)
    Orange (Hall B) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 13 (Hall 2)
    Brown (Hall C) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 14 (Hall 3)
    Black (Hall GND) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 11 (GND)
    Red (Hall +5v) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 10 (+V Hall OUT)

    Pot Terminal 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 1 (+10v OUT)
    Pot Terminal 2 (wiper) >>>>>>>>> Pin 4 (+REF IN)
    Pot Terminal 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 3 (-10v OUT)

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 2 (Signal Ground)
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | (jumper)
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> |
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 5 (-REF IN)


    Motor Wires >>>>>>>>>>>> AMC P2

    Blue (U) >>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 1 (Motor A)
    Brown (V) >>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 2 (Motor B)
    Red (W) >>>>>>>>>>>> Pin 3 (Motor C)


    I also set the DIP switches as follows:

    1 OFF
    2 ON
    3 ON
    4 OFF
    5 OFF
    6 ON
    7 ON
    8 ON
    9 ON
    10 ON

    The process was mostly uneventful - I held my breath and turned power on and got a green LED (good), although the motor made a godawful noise so I turned it off quickly. I then went through all the combinations of the Red/Brown/Blue motor wires until I found the above configuration. Then I found that I was only getting motor speed changes through a small portion of the pot travel (I monitored the wiper voltage, and full speed was achieved at about + and - 1v). This seemed like a gain adjustment to me, and sure enough, tweaking the Reference Gain pot seemed to broaden the range out substantially.

    So, things are looking good except for the top speed issue. I'm open for advice here from you motor control experts. I think I may take a run to a hobby store and pick up a cheap tachometer so I can measure real RPM. If I remember correctly, it used to top out at about 2600 RPM; but the motor was pretty loud at that speed, and it is way quieter now.

    It looks promising, but there is more work to be done. I'll post more tomorrow (I'm going to try hooking up the G540 and try to get some Mach-commanded speed control). I'll also try and get some pictures and some better hookup information; and maybe even shoot some video.

    Dave



  14. #74
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    51
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    devers6 -

    This is certainly ground-breaking development you are into now. I don't recall anything along these lines being accomplished before on this, or any other forums I have trolled for such information.

    I'm not a motor control guy (I do mainly microprocessor control systems) but your theory on the 120/240 issue sounds valid. Perhaps your tach-test will lend some weight to this theory. i.e. maybe the new top speed you have achieved is 1/2 of the original speed.

    This is looking good nevertheless. I'm really keen to see how this pans out.

    Cheers,
    Lewis



  15. #75
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    24216
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I found the motor hook up was exactly as marked, both halls and stator connections corresponded with the wire markings.
    I also hooked it up as you have it in the Hall velocity mode, it also seems to operate OK in the Torque mode, I did not see any particular difference between the two, although this could be confirmed when using an actual load.
    I scoped one of the Hall outputs while at full rpm, the result was 2400 rpm, although my battery box was slightly low so this was at 8.7v in, at 10v it would obviously take it higher.
    The original uses a rectified 120vac so I don't think the resultant DC will be higher, I can check that later today, the DC on the B25A20AC is 165VDC.
    The original motor shows 230v operating voltage, Using a plain B30A40 non-AC version, a separate DC supply could be used to bring the motor operating voltage higher to achieve higher rpm, but of course at more cost.
    The motor shows capable of 3600rpm max.
    Al.

    Last edited by Al_The_Man; 06-05-2011 at 10:39 AM.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  16. #76
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1632
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I'm curious, what is the approx. cost of this controller? It does look like the B25A20AC was a better choice since it does fall into the proper voltage range.



  17. #77
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    24216
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    My older price list show a little over $500.00 from A-M-C, but they can often be had pretty cheap on Ebay.
    The spec falls a little short on the motor voltage spec, but so must have the original, as it is virtually the same design controller.
    Simple Mains rectified for DC supply.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


  18. #78
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    92
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I paid $175 for mine on Ebay; didn't know if that was expensive or not at the time but list price was about $539 on the one place I found pricing for online; so it seemed like a deal. Especially since I was considering buying the Keling 1100 watt motor and drive replacement which would have run about $450.

    I am going to button up the installation today and physically mount the drive in place of the Grizzly drive; as well as hook up the Gecko drive for Mach control. I will try to get some photos and video later on, as well as true measurements of motor and spindle RPM. It occurred to me after posting last night that the 2500 RPM displayed by the Grizzly was spindle RPM that was pulley reduced from the motor by about 2:1. So I need to get real measurements of both the motor and the spindle to compare to the stock drive. I think I'll rig up something to allow me to put the old drive back in circuit, get some top and bottom speeds; then hook up the AMC drive and do the same thing.

    I'd like to compare the output voltage - what is the best way to measure for comparison? I just have an AC/DC multimeter at the moment - should I just set it for AC and measure between one of the three phases and ground?

    Dave



  19. #79
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1632
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    On a stock SX3 the motor is 3600 and the Spindle is 1800 when at full RPM.


    Richard



  20. #80
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    92
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I looked at the full AMC product line and saw the B30A40 was the next most appropriate drive. Looks like it lists for about $800, found none on Ebay right now. It also looks bigger than the B25A20AC (8 x 5.6 x 1.6 inches) but I think that would still fit inside the SX3 column. (The B25A20AC is 7.4 x 4.2 x 2.4). I guess I'll watch Ebay for it as a future upgrade.

    I haven't actually tried the mill so I don't know how it is performing under load. I didn't really use high RPM's much anyway, so I don't think the top end reduction will adversely impact my typical usage (I have a high-speed Proxxon aux spindle that I use on aluminum with small cutters). So it's possible I will never miss the extra speed.



Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Speed Control For SX3 ?

Speed Control For SX3 ?