Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?


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Thread: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

  1. #1
    Member mmiminoo's Avatar
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    Default Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Hallo
    I am new here.
    Read this forum without registration about week and is here loot of information about CNC....
    First idea was buy same cheep CNC like MYSWEETY CNC 3018-PRO https://www.amazon.com/Upgrade-3018-...language=en_US
    And learn how all this works. How works controling axis settings speed, SW etc.
    But i read and view reviews, and isnt so good.
    Now i want to build my own CNC and learn everything.

    Now looking for controller, i prefer ethernet, 4 axis for start is good. (later i use 4axis for extruder 3D print)
    And i read here about +-20 diferent tipes, and but i dint find for any type final conlusion.
    NVEM has own bugs, (is on Mach3 blacklist), is many clones on market... I can buy this for 55€ 6 axis. It is worthed?
    What you thinking about this ? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...42e140f3Q5vz5v
    I try search hier this model but didt find, always come sorry message.

    Or is better Arduino Mega (original) and whole CNC kit?

    Or you have better ethernet controller?
    Thanks for help

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Hi,
    I have a very low opinion of Chinese made controllers.

    NEVM for instance sell pirate copies of Mach3 and if you go to the Mach3 forum youll be asked to leave because of it.

    XHC has a very poor reputation for back-up. If you get stuck trying to set it up you can foreget sending an email to XHC,
    it gets delivered to China, thats China in a galaxy far far away.

    Quite frankly the only thing to recommend Chinese made controllers is that they are cheap. They seldom work as advertised, they
    often don't follow Mach3, they rely on a doctored pirate copy of Mach3 and you get no backup.

    Buy a US or European made controller, for example an Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9TD, or one of the UCxxx series of controllers by
    CNCDrive, or a 57CNC by PoKeys, all in the range $120-$180, all good quality, work as advertised and most imortantly have good manufacturers
    support.

    Craig



  3. #3
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Buy a US or European made controller, for example an Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9TD, or one of the UCxxx series of controllers by
    CNCDrive, or a 57CNC by PoKeys, all in the range $120-$180, all good quality, work as advertised and most imortantly have good manufacturers
    support.
    +1
    Stay away from all Chinese controllers, unless you want to buy a Chinese controller, then spend more on one that actually works.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Member mmiminoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Thanks for fast answer.
    I read about this controllers here on forum.
    But i hate work with the flat cable and this flat conector(I am elektro worker)
    Its like old PATA cable on HDD... In 2020 isnt so great. Not so stabil cable,easy to break, is flat need lot of space, its only for small voltage and amps, always need to count pins or wires..
    And always need adapter plate or extenaion plate for something again with this flat cable and conector...
    But how to o see i dont have any other option.
    I read all about this and then i decide what i buy.
    Thanks fot help



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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    I'm looking at the 2 port UC400eth with the UCBB breakout board. Or with 2* UCSB boards depending on space in my box.
    Yes it's flat cable (IDC26) but once it's installed it's not like you need to keep moving the cables and eventually break them.
    Should be able to stack these with the controller above making ribbon cable install more compactable.

    If I need more ports then it'll be the UC300eth.



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    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Get a UC300ETH and UB1 breakout board. Just one ethernet cable.

    https://www.cncroom.com/interface-cards/uc300eth-ub1

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Ok,
    If i understand that right, i buy this Controller ESS (The Ethernet SmoothStepper) https://www.cncroom.com/interface-ca...th-stepper-ess i need to buy this breakout board https://www.cncroom.com/interface-cards/mb3 ?
    I now combo is cheeper.
    It is posible buy ONLY ESS and flat cabels? This flat cabels cut, take wire after wire and sort on my own board or for example Luster clamp ???
    Or i realy need MB3 breakout board ?



  8. #8

    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Hi,
    you can if you absolutely have to run either the ESS or the UC300 without a breakout board, but a breakout board is recommended.

    The MB3 (for the ESS) and the UB3 (for the UC300) are both quite sophisticated and fully developed and consequently cost as much as
    they do.

    You could use a C10 ($23.00), which is a simple bi-directional single port BoB, or a C25 ($29.55) whicis a two port board. Both these boards
    are much simpler and cheaper. Note they are both connected by ribbon cables. I'v used ribbon canles since I got my ESS, six years, and beacuse
    they don't get flexed have never had an issuue with them.

    Craig

    Last edited by joeavaerage; 04-21-2020 at 02:48 PM.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Get a UC300ETH and UB1 breakout board. Just one ethernet cable. https://www.cncroom.com/interface-cards/uc300eth-ub1
    How to i writed in first post, later i use 4 axe for Extruder on my 3D printer (if i get so far and build it)

    That i thinking about buy ESS for now 95% for this.
    I have budget ~2000€ max 2500€ for complet CNC.

    Lot of material (alu or metal profil etc... i would get from scrap yard
    Ball screw, linear guide i buy new.
    For start i buy electronic -> controller, drivers, motors, end switches LJ12A3-4-Z/BX(good choice???) Then i learn how to control everything trough SW, and after i start build CNC.
    If something going wrong i sell
    electronic parts, i no big lose.




  10. #10

    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Hi,
    a lot depends on what yo want to do with your machine.

    Very lightweigt machines like the one in your link are OK for engraving but are not rigid enough for heavy cutting, even of wood, and
    even less so of aluminum and forget steel.

    The question is.....'do you want to cut metals?'. If you want to cut aluminum then you need a rigid machine, if you want to cut steel
    then the sort of machine you pictured is just not up to it, steel requires 5-10 times the rigidity of a machine for aluminum or wood.

    The next question is....'how big'. We all want big....but big costs. You can anticipate spending 4-5 times the money each time you double the
    size of the machine. To make your budget last make your machine small.

    Depending on the answers to these questions.....your next comment is:

    Lot of material (alu or metal profil etc... i would get from scrap yard
    Can you weld steel?. If you can then steel is very stiff and can usually be had pretty cheap, but being able to weld and weld well
    is pretty much a neccessity.

    Do you know anyone who has a medium to big mill? Especially if you weld stuff you pretty much need to put it in a mill to make
    it dead flat. You'll probably have to pay for it, but if its done right you'll end up with a rigid and accurate machine.

    Ball screw, linear guide i buy new.
    Good quality ballscrews and linear guides are expensive......you may want to reconsider whether they have to be new.
    I've had good luck getting top quality components at a fraction of new cost, maybe you could too. It means that you can
    get better or more rigid parts than you could afford if you buy new.

    My mini-mill doesn't have limit switches, but I have good home switches and so can use SoftLimits. SoftLimits ONLY
    work if your machine is homed, ie good home switches. They need not be expensive, around $13.00USD each, but they do
    need to be repeatable.

    Craig



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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Take a look about RosettaCNC at https://rosettacnc.com/en/
    It is an Italian CNC made for industrial applications but also for hobbystic use.
    Differently from other similar products is the board to do CNC things and PC is used only for graphical interface.
    Board run in proprietary realtime operative system and board interpolation algorithms are same of professional centers.
    Uses ETH (LAN) interface with galvanic insulation.
    Connettors are certified anti-vibrations (trains hard normative).
    In next release (this week) full imperial system is supported in UI (cnc already do) and jerk control with bezier smoothness and s-curve will be available.
    BobCad/Fusion/Artcam/sheetcam/RhinoCAM and other CAM post are already available.

    Telegram/ICQ: @shineworld


  12. #12
    Member mmiminoo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    For start i want to learn everything. How to control, how to setup how to build. Maybe i make later biznis from building this maschines. Maybe...
    I start with wood, maybe aluminum. I think first maschine dont come to precise for working with hard metal.
    Maximum size is 1000x1000x500mm becouse standard lenght of linear rail is 1000mm and also ball screw. That something in this range. Or half size. I now are expensive.
    I want to use NEMA24 or NEMA34 8Nm or 12Nm motors. This have enought power to run/turn this.
    And Yes i can weld, i have MIG/MAG/TIG maschine Alfain PERUN 200 MIG SYN PFC.
    An i have a small lathe to.

    But this thread is about controller or deside which one ist good for controll CNC.
    I have read here loot of information, and only what i am not sure is controller.

    To shineworld -> thanks for tip a check this to.



  13. #13

    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Hi,

    or NEMA34 8Nm or 12Nm motors
    Those large motors tend to have a midband resonance. Lots of people buy them only to be dissapointed.
    I'd recommend low inductance (1-2mH, 1mH preferred, reject anything over 2mH) 23 or 24 size of around 350-450oz.in.
    High inductance steppers will stutter and stall at speed.

    Craig

    Last edited by joeavaerage; 04-22-2020 at 04:36 PM.


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    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmiminoo View Post
    I start with wood, maybe aluminum. I think first maschine dont come to precise for working with hard metal.
    Maximum size is 1000x1000x500mm becouse standard lenght of linear rail is 1000mm and also ball screw. That something in this range. Or half size. I now are expensive.
    I want to use NEMA24 or NEMA34 8Nm or 12Nm motors. This have enought power to run/turn this.
    And Yes i can weld, i have MIG/MAG/TIG maschine Alfain PERUN 200 MIG SYN PFC.
    An i have a small lathe to

    To shineworld -> thanks for tip a check this to.
    I'll be brutal. Those 12nm nema 34's are s**t!
    Tried one on my mill Z axis (around 30kg) and never again, it sucked. It's now got a 7nm (1090oz) fitted and I'm now happy.
    I also have similar 1090oz on the x+y and they're too much on there. This is on a medium bench mill (125kg total weight) with tightish gibs.
    You're talking of linear rails on yours so it will be much looser and freer than my machine.

    If you're going to do it all properly I'd go for closed loop systems. From what I've seen they have lower inductance and should run nice and smooth.
    Here in the uk most normal steppers you can get of 425oz and over all you can get is an inductance value of 3mh and over. That's the value when you begin to get resonance vibrations etc.

    I've seen 4nm closed loops here vith values of 2mh and that's what I'll be changing to at some point on x+y with an 8nm on Z.



  15. #15

    Default Re: Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

    Hi,

    If you're going to do it all properly I'd go for closed loop systems.
    While I agree with dapz1976 I must say I disagree with closed loop steppers. He is certainly correct that the manufacturers of closed
    loop steppers select the lowest possible inductance steppers that they can in order to make and sell their closed loop systems.

    My contention is that its the low inductance steppers that confer the advantages the manufacturers claim rather than the closed
    loop feature.

    All steppers lose torque the faster they go, thats a fact of physics. Inductance is a measure of how bad that torque degradation will be.
    The lower the inductance the better the stepper will perform at speed.

    A closed loop controller does not change that. If a closed loop stepper misses a step it does so because its overloaded, either just the load
    on the stepper shaft or its being asked to rotate at such a speed that is in its diminished torque zone, ie overloaded at speed. The closed loop
    controller will insert and extra step or two to try to catch up, but guess what, the extra steps suffer the same fate, they get missed because the stepper
    is overloaded.

    A closed loop stepper does have two advantages. If it misses too many steps, it will fault 'following error', whereas an open loop stepper
    will carry on despite being inaccurate due to lost steps. The other advatage is that a closed loop stepper can interoplate between full steps
    and achieve greater resolution. An open loop stepper can achieve, at best, 400 steps per revolution resolution whereas 6000 steps per
    revolution resolution is common with closed loop steppers.

    The manufactures of closed loop steppers claim they are faster, more powerful, never lose steps......pure BS. The two real and demonstrable
    advantages that I've outlined come at quite a cost premium.

    My suggestion to OP is to conserve your budget and get LOW INDUCTANCE (less than 2mH) open loop steppers and the highest voltage
    drivers and power supply you can find.

    The classic way to overcome stepper inductance is to use a high voltage driver, the higher the voltage the faster the stepper will go before it
    loses all its torque. At the current time 80VDC is about the highest voltage driver than can be had economically. Gecko are the gold standard
    for reliablity but they cost more. Some of the Leadshine drivers, the AM822, for example are cheaper and also 80V capable.

    The next issue is the power supply. Transformer/rectifier/filter type power supplies are preferred. They are much more forgiving of overload
    than (cheaper) switch mode supplies.

    I use Vexta open loop steppers and Vexta drivers on my mini-mill. They are superb, not especially powerful but because thay are
    low inductance and the divers are a whopping 150VDC they go like hell! I haven't lost a step for over five years, unless I try to do
    something stupid.

    Open loop steppers, if correctly specified and used within their envelope DO NOT LOSE STEPS.

    If you really want closed loop performance then you need to get AC servos, but even cheap AC servos are going to cost at least double what
    good open loop steppers and drivers will cost.

    Craig



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Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?

Ethernet Controller which? XHC Ethernet MK4-ET or NVEM ? Or other ?