CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post


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Thread: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

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    Default CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    Hi,

    I am hoping some of you guys with more knowledge and experience than I have with CNC machines will point out any details I'm missing about these two machines. Both are extremely nice and I doubt I'll be disappointed in either, but it's a huge purchase and I want to make the right choice.

    My use of the machine will be purely hobby wood working. No business stuff so productivity isn't a significant issue. My son may be using it occasionally for some aluminum parts for robotics, but mostly it will be used for woodworking.

    Price is less than $200 apart on my two choices below with identical software and spindles. Looking at them:


    The Stinger SR-23:
    25x36" cutting area with gantry overhang on side.7" under gantry with 9" Z-travel. (This is with their 2" gantrylift)
    Options it would include are:
    a laser cross hair for xy zero'ing
    a Z-touch plate for Z zero'ing
    a 2nd mounted Z touch plate for tool length checking aftertool changes.
    a 1.7KV spindle
    a pneumatic counterbalance.


    The Shop Sabre 23
    30 x 40" cutting area with gantry overhang on side.5" under gantry with 6 1/2" Z-travel
    Options it would include are
    A mounted Z touch off switch for tool length checking aftertool changes.
    The same 1.7 KV spindle


    CAMaster Pros I see:
    1) Z-touch plate included at the price point.
    2) XY alignent Laser
    3) 2" more room under Gantry.


    Shop Sabre Pros I see:
    1) 5 inches wider and 4" longer
    2) A Mitsubishi VFD for the spindle vs maybe a Delta VFD.(Both are likely equivalent to me)
    3) 25mm rails. (I'm not sure what the CAMaster has on theStinger 1's. They use 25mm on every other line.)
    4) Might be slightly more rigid.

    I don't think having a steel gantry crossbar will really make a huge difference in rigidity on these machines. The Stinger 1's gantry is only 36" long or so between the uprights, and since aluminum actually cost more, I don't think they used it instead of steel as a cost saver. I also think the vertical supports on the Stinger have a moreimpressive design to them with some perpendicular pieces, and those parts look like they're aluminum on both machines.
    I really think this is a wash, but would like to know what you think.


    On the gantry height, I don't know if adding 2 inches to the Stinger's gantry supports will decrease rigidity significantly. If it won't harm rigidity, it seems like a nice option.

    One difference I notice that favors the ShopSaber, at least I I think it does, is not needing a pneumatic counterbalance for the 1.7KV spindle. If it's because the ShopSabre has stronger motors, not having to run my compressor whenever the machine is on would be an advantage for the ShopSabre. The ShopSabre uses 2500ounce/inch motors. I don't know what CAMaster uses.

    I don't know if the ShopSabre having all ball screws mattersto me. Rack/Pinion is good enough for machines 10x the price of the ShopSabre23, so I think that's just a design choice.

    The Mitsubishi VFD may be a small advantage forShopSabre. If you know about this, please tell me why that would be. (Edit: Never mind, both use Mitsubishi VFDs)

    I think the two touch plates of the Camaster beats the single tool height measure switch on the ShopSabre. It's convenient.

    (Edit: ShopSabre uses 25mm rails. CAMaster has 15mm rails on the Stinger 1. Gerry commented that both are adequate, below.)


    So given all of the above, what would you choose, or what did you choose? The people I've dealt with a both companies seem very nice. I will admit, I feel like ShopSabre copied a lot of their 23's design from the CAMaster Stinger. ShopSabre also tries to hard sell theirs saying it is clearly better because of XYZ. I don't admire that type of marketing, but even if I think they copied a lot of the 23's design, if they also improved on the design, so be it. I just want to be sure I understand the pros and cons of each before I choose, and your input would be appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Update: Both machines use Mitsubishi VFDs.

    Similar Threads:
    Last edited by JustTheDad; 03-09-2018 at 02:20 PM.


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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    Camaster has a large, supportive user base and user forum. Shop Sabre does not have a user forum that I'm aware of. This can be a big advantage for Camaster.
    These two machines are very similar, and the only difference really comes down to support, and who you feel more comfortable with.

    VFD manufacturer is irrelevant imo.
    Rail size is irrelevant in a machine of this size. 25mm rails are capable of carrying thousands of pounds. Even 15mm rails would be more than adequate.

    Since both have the same spindle, I'd expect the one with the pneumatic assist to perform better. Will it make a lot of difference in the way you'll be using it? Probably not much.

    My guess is that you'll never need the extra gantry height, unless you maybe want to mount a rotary axis on your table?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    My guess is that you'll never need the extra gantry height, unless you maybe want to mount a rotary axis on your table?
    Acoustic guitars are ~4 1/2 inches thick and if I have it in a jig mounted to the spoil board, that maxes out the ShopSabre. Otherwise, I agree, both have plenty of room under the gantries.

    Why would you expect the pneumatic assist one would work better? Wouldn't stronger motors on the ShopSabre be as good as a weaker motor and a pneumatic assist?



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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    Not sure why you would ever put an acoustic guitar body on the machine, but if you intend to machine acoustic necks, then yes, the extra height may come in handy.

    Without knowing everything you intend to make, it's hard to make suggestions.

    I was assuming that everything else was equal except for the pneumatic cylinder.

    With stepper motors, just adding a bigger motor isn't always better. But without seeing both in person, it's impossible to say which performs better.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Not sure why you would ever put an acoustic guitar body on the machine, but if you intend to machine acoustic necks, then yes, the extra height may come in handy.
    That's the plan.
    I think either will work fine, but the 7" leaves room for jigs. Do you think it might have a significant negative impact on rigidity, adding 2" ?

    Gerry, you were right, 15mm rails on the Stinger.



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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    Going to add a question Gerry.

    The ShopSabre has 25mm rails mounted on the sides, the same way the Stinger 2 and all the larger machines from both companies appear to. So the load is perpendicular to the bolts holding it to the machine.

    For some reason, the Stinger 1's 15mm rails are underneath, so it looks like the bolt heads are actually what hold up the rails as opposed to the bolt shaft.

    Intuitively, the ShopSabre design looks like it would hold more weight before deflecting, because you have pressure on 2 sides, not just bolts holding the rails up from underneath.
    It also seems like the CAMaster rails are better protected from dust.

    Do you see any advantage of one over the other?

    Also, the ShopSabre uses a ball screw on the X axis so the stepper motor doesn't move, while the CAMaster using a rack and pinion, so the gantry has to support 2 moving motors.
    Is there any advantage to the ShopSabre design because it has one less moving electrcial component?



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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    For some reason, the Stinger 1's 15mm rails are underneath, so it looks like the bolt heads are actually what hold up the rails as opposed to the bolt shaft.
    The side mounted rails are not resting on the bolts. The rail holes are larger than the bolts for clearance. In both cases, it's the heads of the bolts holding the rails in place.
    Also, the rails should never be used to add strength or reduce deflection in a machine. The machine frame should be the determining factor in regards to deflection or rigidity.

    So, no, there's no advantage strength wise.
    Yes, keeping the dust away is better, but not critical.

    As for the extra moving motor. A stepper is 3-4lbs, which is nothing in the grand scheme.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    I am actually selling my Camaster Stinger 2 and ShopSabre RC4 with ATC if you are still considering these machines.



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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    Do you have those machines posted anywhere for sale?



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    Default Re: CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23 Warning - Long post

    I was looking at both companies for a larger machine before. Both seem to be built like a tank. Shopsabre uses a more pressured sell with "ours is better because...". Camaster doesn't but I think it is because they use their customers and forum to push theirs. Shopsabre likes to tout their steel gantry and ball screws. When asked Camaster counters with why neither is necessary (it did strike me as odd that in one sentence they told how their gantry was just as good but then the next sentence told me that they were in the process of changing to a steel gantry on the Panther.

    All said and done, I think that the larger footprint of the shopsabre would be more beneficial to me than the gantry height. One thing that I did like was that Shopsabre pretty much gave the option to buy basic and add anything you wanted like a spindle by the owner in the field. Camaster for the most part is you must order what you want in the beginning and let them install it in the factory.

    How familiar are you with CNCs? Camaster does have a great forum with actual owners that are more than willing to assist you in any issues that you have. If I was new to the CNC world, I would probably go Camaster for that reason. If I was familiar then Shopsabre would be my choice but you really couldn't go wrong with either machine. I think SS has free shipping right now and Camaster has an upgrade allowance going on.



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CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23     Warning - Long post

CAMaster Stinger 1 or ShopSabre 23     Warning - Long post