Ram-type milling machine

[lukahr]

Other idea that I have is:
Cast base first with rebar sticking out where columns should be
Let it dry for some time so I can demold it
Then make mold directly on base and cast columns directly on rebar
That way i would get one piece base with side columns.

Top bridge can be bolted on later and aligned and gap filled with epoxy.

would that work ? Probably not ideal as base will be already dry concrete (shrinked) and columns will shrink later when drying and that can cause cracks but with all rebars in place would that even matter ?





Best would be to just cast in one go but I don't have any good idea for mold that way without caching too much air in mold.

[lukahr]

Also thinking about foot placement.
I have these designs but cant decide which one to pick.
The one with 3 feet is with bigger antivibration pads in 200mm diameter the others are with smaller 100mm feet.




I have these antivibration pads in my mind
Small ones are 50€ bigger ones are 120€

[peteeng]

Morning Luka - have 3 primary feet for levelling then some for stability. easier to level a machine with 3 feet. Peter

[lukahr]

Morning Luka - have 3 primary feet for levelling then some for stability. easier to level a machine with 3 feet. Peter

I will try to make it like this. 3 bigger for leveling and smaller for stability.

Peteeng you have more experience with epoxy resins.
Would be ok to take one of the available epoxy's that i have locally and mix them with filler and use that as a glue.
I have couple available fillers
- quartz flour
- marble flour
- aluminium powder in 4 different granulations from fine flour up to 1.4mm

For now i didnt find any steel filler.

If i can do that that would be much cheaper than using ready made product from Diamant DWH.

[peteeng]

Hi Luka- Diamant is a specialist epoxy supplier and its prices are high due to the market they support. Is the epoxy you can get one made for composite laminating? to give me an idea of its viscosity. The fillers you mention all do the same thing they provide a very stiff filler to fill gaps and transfer load over that gap. What gap do you imagine you will have?

WEST SYSTEM 400 Fillers - ATL Composites

these are the usual fillers to gap fill vs transfer a lot of load. Qz, marble and aluminium all have a similar stiffness so do the same job. pick the cheapest filler. If the epoxies viscosity is too thin it will run out of the "pack" of these sort of fillers. The west system type fillers change the viscosity of the epoxy (thixotropic additives make it less runny) vs just taking up space in the epoxy. Easy enough to give it a try, sand is cheap and you may already have the epoxy? Then there is the issue of do you want to drill, sand or machine the cured epoxy? If so the aluminium is the answer not sand, quartz or marble.... Peter

[lukahr]

Hi Luka- Diamant is a specialist epoxy supplier and its prices are high due to the market they support. Is the epoxy you can get one made for composite laminating? to give me an idea of its viscosity. The fillers you mention all do the same thing they provide a very stiff filler to fill gaps and transfer load over that gap. What gap do you imagine you will have?

WEST SYSTEM 400 Fillers - ATL Composites

these are the usual fillers to gap fill vs transfer a lot of load. Qz, marble and aluminium all have a similar stiffness so do the same job. pick the cheapest filler. If the epoxies viscosity is too thin it will run out of the "pack" of these sort of fillers. The west system type fillers change the viscosity of the epoxy (thixotropic additives make it less runny) vs just taking up space in the epoxy. Easy enough to give it a try, sand is cheap and you may already have the epoxy? Then there is the issue of do you want to drill, sand or machine the cured epoxy? If so the aluminium is the answer not sand, quartz or marble.... Peter

I have locally availible
EPOX 210 casting epoxy

Viscosity after 5 min at 25?Capprox. 600mPa.s
Pot life at 20?C11 minutes
Tensile strength 40 N/mm2
Elasticity modul 2300 N/mm2
Elongation at break 4-5%

or

LAMEPOX 23
Viscosity after 5 min at 25?Capprox. 500-600mPa.s
Pot life at 20?C90 minutes
Tensile strength (DIN 53 455) MPa 81
Elasticity modul (DIN 53 452) N/mm2 3300
Elongation at break (DIN 53 455) % 6
Compressive strength MPa 111

Price is same 23€ per 1kg.

I suppose gap will be small as i will use it as glue so possible no gap at all.

[peteeng]

Hi luka - lamepox is a laminating resin and is suitable for your bonding requirement. If the gap is very thin then use neat. Can add some Al if you like. If you are bonding I recommend applying to both surfaces first and allow if to soak in for a while then add more and join together. If the surfaces are porous and you apply then bring together the material may soak up some Epoxy and then the joint will be a bit dry...You have 2 hrs before gel so don't panic. You can put the joint together and pull it apart to check if all the surface is wet... Peter

[pippin88]

Hi luka - lamepox is a laminating resin and is suitable for your bonding requirement. If the gap is very thin then use neat. Can add some Al if you like. If you are bonding I recommend applying to both surfaces first and allow if to soak in for a while then add more and join together. If the surfaces are porous and you apply then bring together the material may soak up some Epoxy and then the joint will be a bit dry...You have 2 hrs before gel so don't panic. You can put the joint together and pull it apart to check if all the surface is wet... Peter

Peter, I think he is wanting for filling gap in base to column joint.

I don't think pulling apart and looking is viable. Takes a long time to move heavy stuff and it has to be precisely aligned.


Have a filler tube feeding the joint and pour in until full / top up. Silicone around edge of joint to seal after aligning and before putting in epoxy.

[lukahr]

Peter, I think he is wanting for filling gap in base to column joint.

I don't think pulling apart and looking is viable. Takes a long time to move heavy stuff and it has to be precisely aligned.

Have a filler tube feeding the joint and pour in until full / top up. Silicone around edge of joint to seal after aligning and before putting in epoxy.

Exactly
For bottom joint my idea is:
Make paste like consistency epoxy glue that i can put on base with spatula and then lover heavy columns on it and any execs will be squeezed out on sides.
For mounting and joining columns to base there is no required high precision, all the precision work will be done on top with bridge column.
Also on bottom of column there will be thread rod that will stick out in the bottom of base. I will bolt them together there also to hold in place until glue is cured.

On top side of columns i will have bolts and counter levelling bolts. There i will make all my precise levelling.
I will silicone edges and inject epoxy to fill the gap.

Also i just received price for Diamant DWH epoxy.
DWH 310FL 67€ per 0.5kg (liquid for injection)
DWH 310P 60€ per 0.5kg (paste like for spatula)

[ardenum]

On a different note, for cable management you might wanna move the front bed motor to the back. Unless you want to use a really long (+3m?)cable.

[lukahr]

On a different note, for cable management you might wanna move the front bed motor to the back. Unless you want to use a really long (+3m?)cable.

Actually the plan is to make electrical cabinet on side not on the back.
On back side of the machine I don't have any space left machine will be tight against wall.

[lukahr]

I have one update out of CAD world
So Dyckerhoff NANODUR Compound 5941 (1 ton) has been today loaded onto truck and it is heading my way. So I expect to have it by the beginning of next week.
In the meantime I'm trying to get best prices for HIWIN rails RGW roller type in size 30 and I'm having quite some troubles with stock and lack of raw material at suppliers.
Therefore prices are really high everywhere.

Back in CAD
I have decided how to place feet.
They will be in triangular shape so I can level machine on 3 feet and then lover the rest for support.
I think that weight distribution will be ok as they are equally spaced and also one leg can be max loaded with 6kN so total machine can be max 36kN or 3600kg.
I will imbed in casting steel plates with holes for feet and some welded on steel rebars for anchoring.

[peteeng]

Morning All - I would not use silicon to "seal" the edges of such a joint. It can wick and contaminate the internal surfaces that you want to bond together. Silicon has created gummy epoxy and various issues in the past in my experience. Use masking tape or urethane or epoxy putty to create the dam/seal vs silicon. I'm not sure if its the acetic acid or the silicon itself or diluents or other stuff in the silicon... and its probably brand and type dependent as well but other materials are less risky for the seal.

https://www.epotek.com/docs/en/Relat...teractions.pdf

Peter

[lukahr]

Morning All - I would not use silicon to "seal" the edges of such a joint. It can wick and contaminate the internal surfaces that you want to bond together. Silicon has created gummy epoxy and various issues in the past in my experience. Use masking tape or urethane or epoxy putty to create the dam/seal vs silicon. I'm not sure if its the acetic acid or the silicon itself or diluents or other stuff in the silicon... and its probably brand and type dependent as well but other materials are less risky for the seal.

https://www.epotek.com/docs/en/Relat...teractions.pdf

Peter

Thanks for this information, I can use simple masking tape or something similar to hold epoxy in

[pippin88]

My bad about silicon

Other solutions include a rubber oring / similar. Compressible to allow alignment.

I suspect you will still want the columns fairly well aligned via the bottom joint. You don't want to be a lot out.

You can use shims (can super glue shims together) or jacking screws to align, then inject the epoxy

[lukahr]

My bad about silicon

Other solutions include a rubber oring / similar. Compressible to allow alignment.

I suspect you will still want the columns fairly well aligned via the bottom joint. You don't want to be a lot out.

You can use shims (can super glue shims together) or jacking screws to align, then inject the epoxy

Yes that is true, i want them to be pretty close in first place as it will be easier to work on later. Will shim them before epoxying.
Also i will try to make as symmetrical left and right column as possible.

[ardenum]

Why not try and snipe some rexroth roller guides and carriages on ebay, Sometimes there are even really long pieces. eg.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/172746350964...4AAOSwcbRbxGLJ

about 150EUR for 1m, really good price, plus he has 7 of them (each 2.4m long). I've been browsing these for months, let me tell you, its a steal.

[lukahr]

Why not try and snipe some rexroth roller guides and carriages on ebay, Sometimes there are even really long pieces. eg.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/172746350964...4AAOSwcbRbxGLJ

about 150EUR for 1m, really good price, plus he has 7 of them (each 2.4m long). I've been browsing these for months, let me tell you, its a steal.

Yes i have seen those, but they are BIG .... little too big for me
Price for this rail is really good but i cant find suitable used bearing blocks anywhere for cheap and new ones are really expensive.

I need 8.5m of rail and 12 blocks

If i compare with new HIWIN product in our country
Size 30 with rollers
RGR30 rail 200€/m
RGW30CCZAH block 100€/pcs

Performance wise i think HIWIN is not so much worse than Rexrothand price for HIWIN is more affordable for me.

But if i could get somewhere also bearing blocks for affordable price then yes i would jump on this offer.

[ardenum]

Yes i have seen those, but they are BIG .... little too big for me
Price for this rail is really good but i cant find suitable used bearing blocks anywhere for cheap and new ones are really expensive.

I need 8.5m of rail and 12 blocks

If i compare with new HIWIN product in our country
Size 30 with rollers
RGR30 rail 200€/m
RGW30CCZAH block 100€/pcs

Performance wise i think HIWIN is not so much worse than Rexrothand price for HIWIN is more affordable for me.

But if i could get somewhere also bearing blocks for affordable price then yes i would jump on this offer.

Are those prices directly from hiwin? I have never seen RGR rails anywhere in shops, only HGR and MGR ball rails.

Yea if you're in a hurry there aren't any roller carriages atm, would probably take another 2-3 months to get, But I think it would be worth it, 30vs 45 ain't that big of a difference.

[lukahr]

Are those prices directly from hiwin? I have never seen RGR rails anywhere in shops, only HGR and MGR ball rails.

Yea if you're in a hurry there aren't any roller carriages atm, would probably take another 2-3 months to get, But I think it would be worth it, 30vs 45 ain't that big of a difference.

Yes directly from HIWIN official representive in our country.
RGR30R is rail for roller carriages
https://www.hiwin.de/en/Products/Lin...0H/p/12-000283

Actually I'm not so much in hurry but I need to finalize my design as I'm making molds for castings and with castings you need to plan everything upfront.
So It is hard to plan something without knowing if you will get parts or not, that is why I will probably just take those HIWIN rails as I know I can get them anytime I want.

Update:
Today I have received my 1ton of nanodur 5941 from Germany.
I have also found fine (0-2mm) washed flame dryed sand in right granulation localy.
Now i only need to find course granulation (2-6mm) sand and superplasticizer