Hey guys!
I'm getting to the point with my business where I think introducing CNC into my processes is a good idea. I'm not new to CNC personally, though I don't have one in the shop at the moment. My CNC experience has mainly been with routers, but I'm sure I'll pick up CNC milling quickly enough.
I'm looking for a smaller VMC that can fit through a 6x7' double door into my shop and not take up too much space once it's in there. The machine will mainly cut annealed tool steel and G10 composite, as well as making fixtures and jigs from aluminum. The machine will be doing small runs of parts in various materials. It's won't likely be run more than 16 hours per week.
The machine will be doing 3D contouring in G10, and mainly drilling/side milling on the tool steel.
I've considered a fully rigged out Tormach machine, but I'm worried that it may not last in the long run or be as capable as a proper small VMC. I've learnt my lesson about buying once, so I'm trying to do it properly now.
The machines I've looked at so far (online, not seen in person):
- HAAS mini-mill
- Kent USA KVR2418 (seems like a nice machine)
- Hurco VM1
- Sharp mini-mill
- Tormach PCNC1100 (with enclosure, toolchanger and so on)
KBC tools here in Canada have the Kent machine with a lease option for ~$1200 per month which would make life easier.
I'm also open to the idea of buying used, but it would have to be a solid machine in good shape as I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time fixing something up. If an older VMC with an outdated control was available REALLY cheaply then that's something I'd consider. I'm comfortable with the electronics/programming side of things so retrofitting a machine to run EMC2 would be an option.
What do you guys recommend looking at? I'm after something that's going to last and produce a lot of trouble-free parts.
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Gough Custom - http://goughcustom.com/
A 10000RPM (or faster) spindle and high feed rates would be a must for 3d surfacing aluminum (if it were me)
www.integratedmechanical.ca
Yes I agree. The Kent KVR2418 seems the nicest in most regards so far. It has a 10K rpm spindle, along with rapids all the way up to 1300ipm, and feedrates up to about 600ipm. It also has a lot of stuff standard that seems to be extras on other machines, though granted it has the price to match. I'm also looking at:
HAAS minimill2 (doesn't seem like a strong contender)
Sharp SV2412
First MCV300
Hurco VM1
Hardinge GX300
I have to go to the shop today and confirm how big the largest doors are in the building, I'm not sure that they're actually big enough to fit something like the KVR2418 through...
Gough Custom - http://goughcustom.com/
aarongough
The Kent if you can fit it, next would be the Bridgeport GX300 a little short in travels though, then the Haas Mini Mill 2 or the MCV300
Look at the weight of the machines, this is a big factor in machine performance, & quality of finished parts, also the controls they have, this is what you have to work with, not all controls are equal, & may not do the work you want it to do
Mactec54
the brother speedio machines would be worth looking at as well
Hey Mactec!
Long time no speak my friend, great to see you're still helping people out! Last time we spoke was when I was embarking on my doomed lathe spindle project
I've talked to a Sharp rep this morning regarding the SV2412S-F. It seems the control on that has very limited lookahead (12 blocks), so that may not be a good choice for some of my potential work (making positive forms for vacuum forming). The Kent machine has a higher grade control (Fanuc OiMC).
From what I've seen so far the Kent seems like the most capable machine overall, and it's available locally through a tooling supplier that I already use. Unfortunately though I've done a lot of searching about it and the only information I was able to find was 1 negative thread on a forum... No other user groups or anything. I believe it's a newer machine. Have you had any experience with Kent machines?
Thanks,
Aaron
Gough Custom - http://goughcustom.com/
Different machines I believe but similar design principal. the speeds they run at would make it very good for aluminum and G10, especially with small cutters and 3d contouring. They are also pretty compact.
BTW, where in Canada are you?
Gough Custom - http://goughcustom.com/
aarongough
The Brother & the RoboDrill are both good machines, the Brother being the lightweight, of all of the above machines, Both of these machines were designed for high speed drilling & tapping the Robodrill is almost twice the weight of the Brother & the Kent is around double weight of what the Robodrill, this tells you what to be looking at, how well the machine is built, the weight ( minimum 5,000 LBS ) for a medium performance machine & the control Fanuc Nano control if you can
Bedroom would be a hard fit for any of these machines, you would have to re enforce the floor some unless it was already concrete
Mactec54
I spent some time measuring up all the doorways and such at the shop today, unfortunately there's no way I can fit the Kent, or Sharp machines into the shop, they won't fit through the building doorways, nor the shop doorway.
The Hardinge GX480 would fit though (it's 62" wide), so that's a potential option. The Brother S500X1 would also fit, I'm looking for other options too.
Gough Custom - http://goughcustom.com/
Did you Look at smaller Option like novakon ?
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Novakon is Canadian maybe you can Check factory. I am working also on similar mill but it is really Europa build ... so have a Look at novakon because i believe we Should Try to buy locally ...
Right, I will have a look at them!
As an update: I have chatted with reps from Kent, Hurco, Hardinge and Sharp now.
Apparently the Kent machine will fit into the shop if some of the sheet-metal is removed beforehand. The Kent KVR2418 still seems like the strongest option overall, with the Hurco VM10i running in second.
Gough Custom - http://goughcustom.com/
I'm sure the Novakon is a great machine but it is not in the same class as the other machines you are shopping.
Powermax Machinery in Mississauga has been very good to me and always has quality products. They now sell a line called BaronMax that you could look into
www.integratedmechanical.ca
You are right about class if the Bigger like Kent are Avail fit to Budget then go for it i just wanted to make the canadian Option Known ,..
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When i asked Hurco if a VM10i could be broken down to fit into a 7' height doorway they said no.
Be sure to dig into memory and program size on any fanuc machine. If you have big surfacing programs you may run into issues. You end up having to use sub programs and run directly off memory cards and crap. Fanuc Oi controls are basically user unfriendly and behind the times.
I went through this same decision and got a Brother Speedio. Its a beautiful Japanese machine, as fast as they come and dead reliable. But you pay for that.
Thanks for the feedback! Interesting that they said the Hurco machine can't be broken down. The Kent is bigger and the rep said they wouldn't have any issues fitting it through the door by removing some sheet metal... I will also keep an eye on the control specs. The Kent machine comes with a Fanuc control, but it's shipped standard with 200 block of lookahead, not sure how much program memory it has, will have to check into that.
I've gotten some rough quotes back:
Kent KVR2418 ~$53-55k
Hardinge GX480 ~$82k
Waiting on pricing from Hurco and Sharp still.
Gough Custom - http://goughcustom.com/