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Thread: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

  1. #961
    Member nateman_doo's Avatar
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    OK, I am happy to report the machine is back up and running. I was cheap, and I bought a new G201X instead of the "indestructible" G203V. I also bought a new motor. I installed the 201X and ITS LIKE A NEW MACHINE. Well, that axis is. Its SO MUCH quieter then the X & Z axis. It makes me wonder.

    Remember a while back I built those rattler's to attach to the motors because they resonated so bad?? I wonder if that is the first sign that the driver is going. They have been going almost 2 years. While I leave them on 24/7 they aren't running but a few hours a few days a week. I can probably take the rattler off the Y axis. Can someone explain why a direct replacement (touching no settings on either driver) makes a world of difference?? with the SAME OLD MOTOR?

    Like you mentioned Leeway... the other stepper seems to have the same telltale signs of going with the slight char to it.



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    I don't really like the idea of leaving a machine on 24/7. It seems like a fire waiting to happen. With steppers as hot as they get I would think that would cause them to break down there insulation quicker. At least turn off motor power when the machines not being used.

    Ben



  3. #963
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    I have aluminum heatsinks attached to each motor. Its just me being lazy not wanting to re-indicate the machine every day.



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    That's what home switches are for. The proximity switches I use get me within .0005 or less of where I left off when I shut down. At $12.00 or so each from cnc4pc it was well worth it. Up until I put them in I had 2 options. Leave the machine on like you do or bore a hole somewhere to reindicate to. With servos like I have leaving it on is not so big a issue since the motors don't even get warm at idle and draw less than .25 amps on average. I imagine steppers since they run full power at idle would begin to effect the electric bill. Even if they have the ability to cut power by half or so it would still be somewhat expensive in the long haul. You could probably by dozens of very nice home switches for the cost of leaving it running all the time. Not to mention almost eliminating the likelihood of more burnt contacts and slagged drives.

    Ben



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    Quote Originally Posted by nateman_doo View Post
    OK, I am happy to report the machine is back up and running. I was cheap, and I bought a new G201X instead of the "indestructible" G203V. I also bought a new motor. I installed the 201X and ITS LIKE A NEW MACHINE. Well, that axis is. Its SO MUCH quieter then the X & Z axis. It makes me wonder.

    Remember a while back I built those rattler's to attach to the motors because they resonated so bad?? I wonder if that is the first sign that the driver is going. They have been going almost 2 years. While I leave them on 24/7 they aren't running but a few hours a few days a week. I can probably take the rattler off the Y axis. Can someone explain why a direct replacement (touching no settings on either driver) makes a world of difference?? with the SAME OLD MOTOR?
    Geckos are supposed to be GOOD at handling resonance. It sounds like that isn't your experience until now. I did some looking at the Gecko site and saw these two options for the G201X:
    3.) NEMA-34 and NEMA-42 Motor
    Use this option if the drive is to be used with NEMA-34 and NEMA-42 size motors. This option adjusts the midband compensation circuit for optimum performance when using a NEMA-34 and NEMA-42 motors. SW10 enables this function when “OFF” and disables this function when “ON”. SW10 should be “ON” when used with NEMA-17 and NEMA-23 motors.

    LOW SPEED SMOOTHNESS ADJUST TRIMPOT
    This trimpot adjusts the motor for the smoothest possible low-speed operation. Set the motor speed to about 1/2 revolution per second, and then turn the trimpot until a distinct null is noted in the motor’s vibration. This will result in the most even microstep placement for a given motor and power supply voltage

    I see the the 203V also has the trimpot, but I can't find anything in the manual equivalent to dip switch 10.

    I think SOMETHING on the 201X is adjusted better than the 203V for your motors. Have you tried the trimpot adjustment on the 203V's?

    I have some experience with trying to cut down resonance on my brother's large 3D printer. We switched to KL-4042 drivers and ran the built-in tuning function. That helped quite a bit. They also had (VERY hard to find) software that would allow you to make tuning changes. I'm thinking that Gecko's equivalent is the trim pot and dip switch 10.

    Regards

    Steve



  6. #966
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    Quote Originally Posted by nateman_doo View Post
    OK, I am happy to report the machine is back up and running. I was cheap, and I bought a new G201X instead of the "indestructible" G203V. I also bought a new motor. I installed the 201X and ITS LIKE A NEW MACHINE. Well, that axis is. Its SO MUCH quieter then the X & Z axis. It makes me wonder.

    Remember a while back I built those rattler's to attach to the motors because they resonated so bad?? I wonder if that is the first sign that the driver is going. They have been going almost 2 years. While I leave them on 24/7 they aren't running but a few hours a few days a week. I can probably take the rattler off the Y axis. Can someone explain why a direct replacement (touching no settings on either driver) makes a world of difference?? with the SAME OLD MOTOR?

    Like you mentioned Leeway... the other stepper seems to have the same telltale signs of going with the slight char to it.
    Hi,

    The drivers have a trimpot for reducing resonance. You need to adjust that to tune the resonance for the particular motor.
    You adjust it with the motor rotating at around 2-3 RPS. At that speed you will hear the motor change pitch growl and sound rough. You then adjust the pot so that it is a quiet as possible.

    As to the burns on the motor connectors, it looks like there is arcing going on. From the pictures, the leads to the driver don't appear to be tinned. That is a good thing as tinning can result in poor connections, as the tinning is deformed by the screw and with thermal expansion/contraction it becomes loose.

    The arcing may be because the screw connections in the terminal block are loose. Recheck them as they may have loosened due to thermal expansion. Also check if the arcing is between the pin and the terminal block that sits on the pin. I've seen this in situations where the cable has tension on it, not allowing the terminal block to sit cleanly on the pins. This is usually when the cable has a 90deg bend close to the connector block.

    Finally, I'd send the photos to Geckodrive and see what they have to say.. I'm sure they would be interested to hear about it.

    Cheers,

    Peter

    -------------------------------------------------
    Homann Designs - http://www.homanndesigns.com


  7. #967
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    the connections are tight. But I really touched nothing on any of the drivers to adjust anything. It does sound like awful resonance so if I am not lazy I should check them for that.

    Plus the new driver doesnt make the motor hot at all.



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    OMG WHAT A DIFFERENCE THE ADJUSTMENT MAKES!!!!



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    Btw, do you have current limiting resistors on your other drives? No resistor sets the limit to max, 7A, per the manual. There's also a note in there about needing heatsinks for the drives for more than 3.5A.

    CNC mill build thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/110305-gantry_mill.html


  10. #970
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    The drivers are mounted on Aluminum plates (with thermal compound in between) with fans in the case, so the drivers stay cool. No idea what the current limit is set, I just left them alone.



  11. #971
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    That isn't something that you should just leave alone. Like, well, I am not sure what my tire pressure is, but the wheels roll, so it's all good.

    Lee


  12. #972
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    true, but at least I can "see" if the tire is low. I have been using the machine for over 2 years now - almost 3, so aside from that 1 driver frying Its been a very low maintenance machine. Also I took the steps of reducing the heat build up in them with the thermal goop and aluminum.

    In the new machine I am designing, I am taking it a step further to reduce the heat of the drivers. But I still need a swift kick in the rear to get that project going. been a long time since I did anything on it.



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    If you don't have current set resistors, you have it set to max - 7A. There's a legend right on top of the driver for resistor size vs current settting. If your motors don't need that much current, you could put in appropriate resistors and use less current. It's good you have them on a heatsink, but if you don't need that much current you're just stressing them more than needed.

    CNC mill build thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertical_mill_lathe_project_log/110305-gantry_mill.html


  14. #974
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    Now the Z axis stepper motor controller went. So it seems about a 4 year service life is to be expected?



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    Do you have good airflow across the drivers?



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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    First update in a while.

    Made an adapter to turn the CNC into a surface grinder. Redneck engineering... but it works.

















    The results:

    Kind of works. Didn't optimize any tool paths, just used the MACH3 rectangular pocket wizard.





  17. #977
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    A most random update, just to show what the machine has been up to lately:


    It can actually mill steel ok. The machine is starting to show its weakness though. Preloaded ballnuts would have made a world of difference in terms of rigidity.



  18. #978
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    Also, always overbuild. The fact that I can fit a transmission bell housing impressed me.




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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    Quote Originally Posted by nateman_doo View Post
    Also, always overbuild. The fact that I can fit a transmission bell housing impressed me.
    Any new updates with the machine? I am back and itching to build again...



  20. #980
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    Default Re: 18x18 Linear Rail Tormach Build.

    honestly, no updates. Machine still functions just fine. I have cut hardened damascus steel with it (albeit slow) replaced a few couplers over the years, and the occasional stepper motor. I honestly have no complaints about it. Sorry it took me TEN MONTHS to reply.



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