Metal cutting band saw


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    Default Metal cutting band saw

    I always wanted a metal band saw but never really got around buying one because I always thought these are special tools I rarely will use and are expensive, so I never found out any facts about them, how good they are or how much they actually cost. However, lately (last couple of years) I have done a whole lot of metal works as hobby activity. Until recently, I used angle grinder for cutting steel and circular saw to cut aluminium, which worked OK, but not very good. I am not a master of angle grinder and never really manage to cut straight. I am also not very comfortable with the use of angle grinders, because of all the sparks, fine dust and the fact the the grinder wheel can split and cause serious bodily harm, so I am very reluctant to use it. I considered buying a steel cutting blade for my circular saw, but again, the sparks and the hot, sharp chips flying around those things scared me off from doing it. I am sure it is not a good idea to use a circular saw for both wood and steel, the risks of fire are huge due to all the wood saw dust, plus I cant just take the circular saw out every time I need to cut a small piece of steel, so I voted against that solution.

    Anyway, to cut the long story short, two weeks ago I made a decision to buy a metal cutting band saw. I made a research, and realized that these are not that expensive, and in fact, I can also use it for cutting wood, plastics, aluminium or whatever else I want to, so the "need" was well motivated. I ended up buying a "brand" called Biltema, which is a Norwegian company selling machinery, car parts, tools and some other stuff. The machine is called MBS 1141, which is almost the same as Scheppach MBS 1200 and many others, it has a 1200W motor like the MBS 1200, but has a better wise and some other features. The price was about 220 €, so it is definitely not the cheapest alternative, but also not very expensive. I chose to buy it in a real shop near me, because I believe that if I get an issue with this, the service will be easy and simple. I have no experience with the "Biltema" machine quality, but I am pretty inexperienced with all the other alternatives as well regarding metal band saw, so I thought this is the best solution for me.

    I made a short video about it also, here it is, enjoy if you have the time.



    I think that my observations are relevant even if you can't buy this outside the Nordic countries, because this machine is basically the same as every other nameless brand, so it is applicable for all of the others as well. Personally, I love the fact that I can finally cut steel indoors without wearing a face mask and without risking fire or spreading all the fine and toxic dust around the workshop. Cutting dry is also nice, and also the fact that all the saw dust are too large to fly around in the area where I use it, so the dust falls immediately near the machine, but at the same time, the produced dust is not large enough to call it chips, and definitely not sharp. Of course, it still needs the use of eye protection, even though the risks of getting something in my eyes are very small with this machine. And also of course that ear protection is a must, since the machine is noisy, but cutting metal is noisy in general, so that's no big deal. I love it so far, and also because it is dry cutting, so cleaning is very easy using the vac.

    If you don't already have one, I really recommend buying one, not necessarily the Biltema I have, but for example the Scheppach MBS 1200. I think this will be my most used saw in the future.

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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    I have a very similar machine and I'm sick of it. Life span of the blades is very short. blade breaks after about 10-20 use. I tried tighten the blades, I tried loosen the blades. No matter what I tried they always breaks shortly. I tried many different branded blades with same results. I opened the back cover and removed the pulleys. They looked perfect. I tried to weld the broken ones to reuse but I never been able to make it good enough. They just keep breaking. I don't know if its just me but I just hate it. I use my circular saw for steels and lathe for small aluminiums.

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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    It looks like a cross between a portable bandsaw and a horizontal. A portable band saw is handy for cutting off protruding metal bars or pipes because it can be hand-held and brought to the work. But this doesn't look like it could work that way - or does it come off that mount easily, so it can be hand-held? I've never used one exactly like this, but I don't see how it would have any advantage over a normal horizontal band saw. I guess it's cheaper, though.

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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    I have a very similar machine and I'm sick of it. Life span of the blades is very short. blade breaks after about 10-20 use. I tried tighten the blades, I tried loosen the blades. No matter what I tried they always breaks shortly. I tried many different branded blades with same results. I opened the back cover and removed the pulleys. They looked perfect. I tried to weld the broken ones to reuse but I never been able to make it good enough. They just keep breaking. I don't know if its just me but I just hate it. I use my circular saw for steels and lathe for small aluminiums.

    Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk
    "Similar" but not the same. All similar saws are similar in design, but there are some differences, some of which I mention in my video also. Anyway, it is difficult to say anything about your issues, because you didn't even say which make and model it is. We also have no idea about how you use yours. I don't know how long my blade will last, but definitely more than 10 cuts, that's for sure, since I have already made more than 10 cuts, most of these in steel, some in pretty hard, large(ish) and thick steel. I know that the blade makes a difference, my next blade will be Bahco, which is about four - five times more expensive than the cheap ones.

    I know that the blade is a weak point, especially the welding, since that gets the most beating also. But how fast the blade brakes depends also on the quality and the way the machine is used and maintained. I think many of these machines are severely abused, used as they unbreakable. Many people are pushing the machine down while cutting, and not using the right speed. I hold it back and let it cut the material, and also adust the speed up or down, depending in the material. Many people spray the blade when cutting, and that's one of the worst thing you can do with these, because these machines are made for dry cutting, if you spray the blade the metal dust gets stack to the blade, the blade carries the dust in through the bearings, some of the dust settles onto the bearings and gets inside the bearings, destroying it, or slowing it down, and as a result, the blade wear will increase. The metal saw dust, which didn't release from the blade when it touched the bearings will continue to the rubber wheels, some will dig itself into the rubber and damages it, causing rubber wear and blade slipping, which cause additional heat, and can result the user pushing the saw harder in an effort to counter act the slipping, which increases the heat even more, causing even more blade and rubber wear. Some saw dust will be thrown off the blade and the drum and will end up in the hub of the freewheeling wheel, the one near you. That wheel rotates without any bearing on a steel rod axle, which can get jammed of all the garbage. Speaking of the freewheeling wheel, have you ever checked the blade alignment? Mine was not aligned properly, so the blade was too deep down, the teeth were on the rubber, which is not good, because it would chew up the rubber. The wheel must be aligned so that the teeth are just above the rubber. Some saws (like mine and the Scheppach MBS 1200, has an alignment adjustment screw, so I adjusted mine on day one.

    So there are many reasons why the blade breaks, I really don't believe that it's normal that regardless of blade quality, you can only cut 10-20 times with your machine before the blade breaks. Something must be wrong with your machine or the way you use it.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by awerby View Post
    It looks like a cross between a portable bandsaw and a horizontal. A portable band saw is handy for cutting off protruding metal bars or pipes because it can be hand-held and brought to the work. But this doesn't look like it could work that way - or does it come off that mount easily, so it can be hand-held? I've never used one exactly like this, but I don't see how it would have any advantage over a normal horizontal band saw. I guess it's cheaper, though.
    Yes, this is a "2 in 1" type, can be used hand held or on the stand. There are three screw attaching the machine to the arm and is fairly easy to remove if I need to. I don't know how often that will happen because I am doing like 99% of my cuts from a stand, I even used my angle grinder from a stand most of the time, so for me a good stand is a must have for this type of saw. One of the weak points of this machine is the wise, which I intend to modify later to provide better holding, but even as it is, I find it very good and useful.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    years ago I modified a handheld portable to work as a horizontal saw in the same way as yours is . I hinged it and mounted a drill press vise . It worked ok for the time but it wasn't capable of cutting without assistance . I always had to relieve some of the pressure from the blade otherwise the blade would lock up from the chips and or wander badly . The biggest problem for me was the fact that the blades are too fine pitched for cutting aluminum and the saw would jam up on the chips . The small blades wander and are pretty weak , I snapped a lot of them .
    At the time I was starting a small production shop and it did what I needed it to but I quickly out grew it and found a super deal on an old used kysor johnson saw which will probably out live me .

    I can see the benefits of a compact saw like that for occasional use but for regular use there are much better options within the same price range



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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    years ago I modified a handheld portable to work as a horizontal saw in the same way as yours is . I hinged it and mounted a drill press vise . It worked ok for the time but it wasn't capable of cutting without assistance . I always had to relieve some of the pressure from the blade otherwise the blade would lock up from the chips and or wander badly . The biggest problem for me was the fact that the blades are too fine pitched for cutting aluminum and the saw would jam up on the chips . The small blades wander and are pretty weak , I snapped a lot of them .
    At the time I was starting a small production shop and it did what I needed it to but I quickly out grew it and found a super deal on an old used kysor johnson saw which will probably out live me .

    I can see the benefits of a compact saw like that for occasional use but for regular use there are much better options within the same price range
    I am not sure I know which would be a "better option for the same price range", but that may depend on where you live, so perhaps you have better alternatives. I don't regard buying a used machine as a "better option", used machines are a bit of a lottery, some times you win, but most of the times you lose. Better machines may have been used as industrial machines, and when they are sold, they may look like a good alternative, but they are worn out and too old, so some severe restoration may be needed, not just new paint.

    Anyway, so far I didn't see any saw blade wandering, and the blade is not that small, it is 1/2" wide. The machine has 11 bearings, 10 to support the cutting, so I think that's good. The blade I have is not that fine pitch, it's 10/14 so it works well for aluminium and steel, but if I find any tooth pitch related issues I'll just buy the blade for the job. It is certainly important that the blade is not too fine, and have seen that some machine is sold with 18 TPI blades, which is far too fine for my taste. I am not an expert on metal band saws, this is my first one and it is less than two weeks old, so I am still on my honeymoon trip with it, but I believe I did my home work and chose something which is good for the money I was ready to spend on this. I am not a heavy user, just an amateur machinist who needs to cut metal now and then and is tired of using the angle grinder or hacksaw.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com


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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    a 10/14 blade is still too fine for a fair sized piece of aluminum , it's ok for tubing but I didn't find it all that good for solid stock . The problem is that there are very limited blade options for those saws , or at least there were when I used mine .

    in regards to used saws - it's all a matter of knowing what we are looking for (just like anything ) . There are very few components to a saw and in worst case it's a matter of replacing bearings or a motor . I got my kysor for $300 and as I said it will out live me and probably the next guy . The only problem I had was the original cylinder was shot and had to be replaced at a low cost

    this is what i was referring to as a better alternative https://www.harborfreight.com/horizo...saw-93762.html
    the same saw is relabelled and sold under many names



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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    a 10/14 blade is still too fine for a fair sized piece of aluminum , it's ok for tubing but I didn't find it all that good for solid stock . The problem is that there are very limited blade options for those saws , or at least there were when I used mine .

    in regards to used saws - it's all a matter of knowing what we are looking for (just like anything ) . There are very few components to a saw and in worst case it's a matter of replacing bearings or a motor . I got my kysor for $300 and as I said it will out live me and probably the next guy . The only problem I had was the original cylinder was shot and had to be replaced at a low cost

    this is what i was referring to as a better alternative https://www.harborfreight.com/horizo...saw-93762.html
    the same saw is relabelled and sold under many names
    Regarding the blade, it depends on how fast you push it, that is, it should NOT be pushed at all, nor should the blade be sprayed with any kind of coolant, like many I have seen on YouTube is doing. It works well for all the dimensions I have used so far, not just tubes. Anyway, I found also 6/10 blades, but will see which works for me. Here the 10/14 TPI blades can be found in shops, and sure, they are pretty cheap also on Amazon, so I won't cry if I have to replace bands a few times.

    BTW, the alternative you linked to is not an option for me at all. It's too large and quite a lot more expensive and also not flexible enough, it's just a horizontal band saw, not portable. It would be my preferred type if I had enough space and could have both, but not as an alternative to mine. It's kind of apples and oranges, quite a different product. Also, second hand is only a possible alternative in my opinion if you can test it before committing buying it, and as I said, even so, it is a bit of a lottery.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    it should NOT be pushed at all

    Also, second hand is only a possible alternative in my opinion if you can test it before committing buying it, and as I said, even so, it is a bit of a lottery.
    I had mentioned that I had to relieve pressure from the blade , the blade would lock up in the flatbar otherwise . I get that used is sometimes a crap shoot but if a guy knows what to look for then there are good deals to be found . I like my 4-6 tpi blades , I can cut in seconds vs minutes . I've had both saws and the second saw (in the link) was better than the portable , but those chinese saws are still turds .

    I understand your necessity in portability and we always have to work within our means so don't get me wrong because I'm not knocking it . I had a period where I used a makita mitre saw until I eventually killed it . It cut nice but hot chips and the mess wasn't any fun , and thats when the portable came into play . I had limited space at the time to



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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    I had mentioned that I had to relieve pressure from the blade , the blade would lock up in the flatbar otherwise .
    The one I have is definitely not locking the blade in flat bar, at least not in the bars I have used on, but the cut is nicer if I don't let the saw go down on it's full weight. As I mentioned before, all these saws are similar, but not the same. Some are better than others, even if all are made in China, even the one you linked to.

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    I get that used is sometimes a crap shoot but if a guy knows what to look for then there are good deals to be found . I like my 4-6 tpi blades , I can cut in seconds vs minutes . I've had both saws and the second saw (in the link) was better than the portable , but those chinese saws are still turds .

    I understand your necessity in portability and we always have to work within our means so don't get me wrong because I'm not knocking it . I had a period where I used a makita mitre saw until I eventually killed it . It cut nice but hot chips and the mess wasn't any fun , and thats when the portable came into play . I had limited space at the time to
    I am sure that the larger saws are more efficient, but this is not a competition for me, so it doesn't matter if it takes a few minutes for me what takes a few seconds for you. I am just a hobbyist, have all the time in the world, financially independent, so there is no need for me to have the fastest and most efficient tool. The portability is not an absolute must have for me, but it is a bonus. How often it will be needed, i have no idea, but it is better to have it and not need it than need it but not have it. What really was a must have was the size. I simply have no space for a floor type with a stand, even if that would be better and more efficient. It would definitely be more practical because today, if I want to use my large table saw I must remove the band saw and place it somewhere else to clear the area, since I keep my band saw on the table saw, as I show it in my video.

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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    I picked up a small benchtop unit from little machine shop a few years ago #4829, does not seam they offer any longer?
    Has worked well for many projects
    randy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Metal cutting band saw-4829-jpg  


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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    This is my favourite saw now, even for wood. It may not be the fastest cutting saw I have, but it is easy to handle and it cuts very nicely.

    Metal cutting band saw-20241014_145024_1k5-jpg

    I squared the blade in every direction, which meant that I had to add two 1.5 mm washers under the front of the vise to get the blade vertically aligned.

    Metal cutting band saw-20241014_145434_1k5-jpg Metal cutting band saw-20241014_145445_1k5-jpg

    Now the saw cuts in perfect 90° angles in every direction and it is of course repeatable.

    Metal cutting band saw-20241014_145225_1k5-jpg Metal cutting band saw-20241014_145402_1k5-jpg

    I also made a small improvement, added a wooden block to support the cut off piece so that it won't fall and rip off the end just before the blade cuts through.

    Metal cutting band saw-20241014_145646_1k5-jpg

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    "Similar" but not the same. All similar saws are similar in design, but there are some differences, some of which I mention in my video also. Anyway, it is difficult to say anything about your issues, because you didn't even say which make and model it is. We also have no idea about how you use yours. I don't know how long my blade will last, but definitely more than 10 cuts, that's for sure, since I have already made more than 10 cuts, most of these in steel, some in pretty hard, large(ish) and thick steel. I know that the blade makes a difference, my next blade will be Bahco, which is about four - five times more expensive than the cheap ones.

    I know that the blade is a weak point, especially the welding, since that gets the most beating also. But how fast the blade brakes depends also on the quality and the way the machine is used and maintained. I think many of these machines are severely abused, used as they unbreakable. Many people are pushing the machine down while cutting, and not using the right speed. I hold it back and let it cut the material, and also adust the speed up or down, depending in the material. Many people spray the blade when cutting, and that's one of the worst thing you can do with these, because these machines are made for dry cutting, if you spray the blade the metal dust gets stack to the blade, the blade carries the dust in through the bearings, some of the dust settles onto the bearings and gets inside the bearings, destroying it, or slowing it down, and as a result, the blade wear will increase. The metal saw dust, which didn't release from the blade when it touched the bearings will continue to the rubber wheels, some will dig itself into the rubber and damages it, causing rubber wear and blade slipping, which cause additional heat, and can result the user pushing the saw harder in an effort to counter act the slipping, which increases the heat even more, causing even more blade and rubber wear. Some saw dust will be thrown off the blade and the drum and will end up in the hub of the freewheeling wheel, the one near you. That wheel rotates without any bearing on a steel rod axle, which can get jammed of all the garbage. Speaking of the freewheeling wheel, have you ever checked the blade alignment? Mine was not aligned properly, so the blade was too deep down, the teeth were on the rubber, which is not good, because it would chew up the rubber. The wheel must be aligned so that the teeth are just above the rubber. Some saws (like mine and the Scheppach MBS 1200, has an alignment adjustment screw, so I adjusted mine on day one.

    So there are many reasons why the blade breaks, I really don't believe that it's normal that regardless of blade quality, you can only cut 10-20 times with your machine before the blade breaks. Something must be wrong with your machine or the way you use it.
    This is the machine I have. A rebranded Chinese machine I believe. The construction looks and feels very rigid. No significant play on the pulleys.

    After some use I always see too many perpendicular hair cracks on the blades and they breaks eventually. Hair crack is usually a sign of tension (overtight) on the blade but little less tension on a new belt doesn't help either. Maybe the steel quality isn't good as needed.

    Anyway. I wish you'll have more luck than me with your machine.

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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    But it cuts nice when the blade is new. I just cut this 55mm diameter SS for me fly cutter project.

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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    I bought one like the white one above - I'm in the UK, and mine came from Austria. It had faults from the get-go which I had to address and a complaint was sent to the suppliers, got an apology and a spare blade as one of the faults resulted in a jam causing a set in the blade! Nonetheless it met my requirements to cut a 5" sq block of CI - actually 115 x 115mm (so about 4.5" sq) - took it slow with plenty of oil and it took about 10 minutes at a guess. Needed facing in lathe for speed as I don't have mill capacity for flycutter. Overall i'm happy with it for what I need!



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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    This is the machine I have. A rebranded Chinese machine I believe. The construction looks and feels very rigid. No significant play on the pulleys.

    After some use I always see too many perpendicular hair cracks on the blades and they breaks eventually. Hair crack is usually a sign of tension (overtight) on the blade but little less tension on a new belt doesn't help either. Maybe the steel quality isn't good as needed.

    Anyway. I wish you'll have more luck than me with your machine.

    Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk
    Nice machine, but that is not portable. I mean, you can transport it, but it is not meant to be transported, and also not usable as a hand saw.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by Azalin View Post
    But it cuts nice when the blade is new. I just cut this 55mm diameter SS for me fly cutter project.

    Sent from my MI 5s Plus using Tapatalk
    I think all of these machines cut nice, assuming the blade is right, it is aligned as well as the tension is right and the machine is not wiggling or pushed too hard.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/AdaptingCamera/videos
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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Nice machine, but that is not portable. I mean, you can transport it, but it is not meant to be transported, and also not usable as a hand saw.
    I didn't say portable but still it's a band saw.

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    Default Re: Metal cutting band saw

    OK, so after only a few weeks light use, my band saw blade snapped off.



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