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Thread: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

  1. #553
    *Registered User* ishi's Avatar
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    Default Re: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

    Quote Originally Posted by alannext View Post
    ok I gotta ask, throughout this thread you frequently stated 'we' are going to do this, or 'we' are moving in this direction, or 'we' are going to increase the budget, etc... Was the 'we' just 'you'? Really curious - If there was anyone else involved, are they happy to have been taken on the joyful path of learning?
    alannext,

    Thanks for asking! Yes, there are several people involved who share my level of excitement. I like to give credit when credit is due, and a lot of this work could not be done without the support I am getting from a handful of people. Some are brand new to the design of a CNC machine, but others have been involved in the building of hundreds of machines. One of them in particular is providing daily guidance. He will introduce himself when he feels like it.

    I fully recognize that my process is rather unconventional, but my purpose is genuine: learning as much as I can, and hoping for a happy accident. I share all this online because writing my ideas down really help me give structure to them, with or without advice from knowledgeable readers, and it is helping my advisors keep track of the project's evolution, even though we use some additional tools in parallel (email and Google docs).

    Cheers!

    Ismael



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    *Registered User* ishi's Avatar
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    Default Turning Carriage

    Here is the carriage for the turning unit. The spindle will hold the turned part and will ride on the Yt axis. The carriage itself will ride on the Xt axis (sliders not shown yet). This assembly will weigh over 1.5 metric tons...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education-screen-shot-2018-09-03-11-09-a   6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education-screen-shot-2018-09-03-11-10-a  
    Last edited by ishi; 09-04-2018 at 02:10 AM.


  3. #555
    Gold Member handlewanker's Avatar
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    Default Re: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

    ISHI.....you are making one glaring fundamental mistake.....this machine has not been designed for robot attendance……..it requires full Human interface and servitude......you cannot evolve a Human integrated machine and then convert it to a robot orientated infrasrtructure…..it has to be one or t'other.

    If your (and others) leaning is towards the workshop of the future with a totally robot work force then this machine design so far has to be completely abandoned and a new design totally allied to automatic robotic command sequences.

    That is, the complete package has to be robot generated including the design and machining program to control the scheduled work loads.....only a robot knows what a robot wants…..not a Human...….that makes the "We" influence obsolete.

    BTW, don't tell me a robot can't design a better robot.....that is a Human way of thinking......intelligence is an acquired way of overcoming obstacles by advancing beyond the mere solution stage.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch...….I think that if the design that has finally eventuated was further modified to cater for the turning aspect.....it might raise a few eyebrows and generate more interest from those that could consider it a viable machine for do-all applications.

    I can't second that as I'm of a different mind set and combi machines aren't one of them.

    One thing's for sure.....a robot won't be autonomous in it's performing…….all the commands to make it go will come from Central Control up in the Cloud or somewhere.....in the ideal World the robot is just an unpaid slave 24/7.
    Ian...



  4. #556
    *Registered User* ishi's Avatar
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    Default Re: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    ISHI.....you are making one glaring fundamental mistake.....this machine has not been designed for robot attendance……..it requires full Human interface and servitude......you cannot evolve a Human integrated machine and then convert it to a robot orientated infrasrtructure…..it has to be one or t'other.

    If your (and others) leaning is towards the workshop of the future with a totally robot work force then this machine design so far has to be completely abandoned and a new design totally allied to automatic robotic command sequences.

    That is, the complete package has to be robot generated including the design and machining program to control the scheduled work loads.....only a robot knows what a robot wants…..not a Human...….that makes the "We" influence obsolete.

    BTW, don't tell me a robot can't design a better robot.....that is a Human way of thinking......intelligence is an acquired way of overcoming obstacles by advancing beyond the mere solution stage.

    Meanwhile, back at the ranch...….I think that if the design that has finally eventuated was further modified to cater for the turning aspect.....it might raise a few eyebrows and generate more interest from those that could consider it a viable machine for do-all applications.

    I can't second that as I'm of a different mind set and combi machines aren't one of them.

    One thing's for sure.....a robot won't be autonomous in it's performing…….all the commands to make it go will come from Central Control up in the Cloud or somewhere.....in the ideal World the robot is just an unpaid slave 24/7.
    Ian...
    You've lost me there...



  5. #557
    Gold Member handlewanker's Avatar
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    Default Re: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

    Simply put....will the new design with a turning capacity be orientated for robotic use in which case I would expect that no one on this forum has the slightest interest.....we are all hands on Human operators.

    On the other hand, if you are going to update the latest design to cater for a turning capability.....any reference to robot handling is nonsense unless it is a simple pick and place feature...…..now you also have to go back to the ATC design too.
    Ian..



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    Default Re: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

    I would expect that no one on this forum has the slightest interest
    Absolutely not true. I think most 'hobbyists' would be absolutely fascinated!

    the complete package has to be robot generated including the design and machining program to control the scheduled work loads.....only a robot knows what a robot wants
    Sorry Ian, but that is off with the fairies.
    It might be 200 years before a robot could do any design work of this nature, and another 200 before a robot might have the ability to 'want to' design a machine. You are talking about a leap greater than the one from a horse and cart to a Saturn launcher. At least the horse knows where the stable is; the Saturn is (still) just a bunch of bolts and bits.
    And I have designed and built robots.

    Cheers
    Roger



  7. #559
    *Registered User* ishi's Avatar
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    Default Robot-optimized machine

    For those interested in robot-optimized machines, I strongly encourage the review of some of the machines built by INDEX TRAUB. While I love the design and packaging of DMG MORI machines, the INDEX TRAUB machines really set the benchmark in terms of kinematics and robotics. For example, here is a machine with a built-in robotic arm:

    https://us.index-traub.com/en/index/...matics/ms52c3/

    Another interesting one is their vertical turning center:

    https://us.index-traub.com/en/index/...centers/v160c/

    But you'll notice that these machines are still designed primarily for human operators. Removing them from the picture can lead to some really interesting configurations. That being said, I am still struggling with the design of the 6+6 configuration that I had in mind...

    Stay tuned...



  8. #560
    Gold Member handlewanker's Avatar
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    Default Re: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

    Well I suppose you " could' attach a pair of robot arms to a VMC/HMC....whatever.... and make it a self loading machine.

    It would be interesting to watch the machine open the doors itself and an arm reach up to remove a tool from the spindle and then place it in a rack next to the machine after which another tool is selected and stuck up the spindle.....if a Human can do it so could a robot arm...…..when the trumpet blows the doors close and the performance begins.

    It doesn't take much intelligence to make something complicated but it takes a lot of intelligence to make it simple.

    I think ISHI has become deeply mired down with the more complicated 6 axis configuration purely because a 6 axis design can only be made that way...……the spindle requirement limits your imagination...….….you can't make a 6 axis design simple or cheap unlike a 5 axis that "could" be DIY in the making for the same end results.

    If we're talking about microns of accuracy then it's not going to show up on a complex shape like the whisky or beer mug from the previous thread, but for a complex shape with tight tolerances on incremental dimensions then talking about accuracy is one thing but actually proving it can be done only with a 6 axis is another.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Robot-optimized machine

    BTW.....did it ever occur to anyone who designs and then sources parts from the community that the more complicated the part the less sources you have to make them...……..and the more complicated the part becomes the more naughts get added to the hourly rate for machining.
    Ian.



  10. #562
    *Registered User* ishi's Avatar
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    Default HSD HST610 HSK-T

    For those interested in turning, we got confirmation from HSD that we should be able to get the HST610 double-sided with the HSK-T form taper for turning. We will discuss this in more details with their director of engineering at IMTS next week in Chicago. By the way, if you want to meet there, just ping me.



  11. #563
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    Default Re: 6-axis Horizontal Machining Center for Education

    Ishi, what's goin on? We are hungry for updates



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