Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?


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    Default Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    I am trying to select a twin spindle twin turret machine, used, what do I need to know that is not obvious.
    Can they feed all axis simultaneously? Or only this controller or with these options?
    Can either turret machine on either spindle, guarding against collisions of course?
    What usually breaks, wears out or never worked as stated?
    I see some lathes with milling heads in place of the upper turret. What is more productive for making 4 axis parts (X Y Z and C)?
    What machine did you like? Not like?

    Thanks in advance for your opinions.

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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    Quote Originally Posted by vfsi View Post
    I am trying to select a twin spindle twin turret machine, used, what do I need to know that is not obvious.
    Can they feed all axis simultaneously? Or only this controller or with these options?
    Can either turret machine on either spindle, guarding against collisions of course?
    What usually breaks, wears out or never worked as stated?
    I see some lathes with milling heads in place of the upper turret. What is more productive for making 4 axis parts (X Y Z and C)?
    What machine did you like? Not like?

    Thanks in advance for your opinions.
    If you are looking at a twin spindle lathe with twin turrets, you should already have a good understanding of them, and how they work, live tooling is part of a machine like this, it would be worthless without live tooling

    Can they crash, any setup is only as good as the programmer, they are not easy if you have never done one before

    Each turret is normally only use for the spindle that it is associated with

    What is more productive for making 4 axes parts, a 5axes lathe like what you have been asking about, you can bar feed a machine like this, and have finished parts, and don't need a operator to watch over it, only to check parts are in spec and load a new bar stock when needed

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    Thanks for your response.
    I have a good understanding of the machines but not the details and limitations. I was looking for a little bit of detail on how different manufactures and different ages of machines compare as to the multi tasking capability.
    Also I see videos of two single point tools, one in each turret, working on the same part at the same time. Are most machines, controllers capable of doing that or is that an option feature?
    Can some one tell me about challenging operations that they accomplished with their multi task machine?



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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    Quote Originally Posted by vfsi View Post
    Thanks for your response.
    I have a good understanding of the machines but not the details and limitations. I was looking for a little bit of detail on how different manufactures and different ages of machines compare as to the multi tasking capability.
    Also I see videos of two single point tools, one in each turret, working on the same part at the same time. Are most machines, controllers capable of doing that or is that an option feature?
    Can some one tell me about challenging operations that they accomplished with their multi task machine?
    These machines are manufacture independent, what one has may not even be an option on another machine, as for both turrets moving working at the same time, not all do this, you will have to find a machine that will do everything you want to do, write out a list of what you want to achieve with your finished parts, and then find a machine that will do all those operations you want, add some extra operations as well, for those jobs that need more operations

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    Quote Originally Posted by vfsi View Post
    I am trying to select a twin spindle twin turret machine, used, what do I need to know that is not obvious.
    Can they feed all axis simultaneously? Or only this controller or with these options?
    Can either turret machine on either spindle, guarding against collisions of course?
    What usually breaks, wears out or never worked as stated?
    I see some lathes with milling heads in place of the upper turret. What is more productive for making 4 axis parts (X Y Z and C)?
    What machine did you like? Not like?

    Thanks in advance for your opinions.
    I think they are very complicated to program and operate, it would be a small mountain if you had not already programmed and run a C&Y single turret lathe for example. You will need a better operator and programmer for them. The efficiency of a twin turret is relational to the programming strategies and quality, so things like a timed rough and finish operation, drilling and grooving etc, are ways to bring down a run time, but are also ways to make operating the machine more dangerous for crashes. We have a 70-30 balance on our parts keeping the upper on the main and the lower on the sub. We could probably force an 8% improvement in run time through the use of dangerous strategies that would complicate restarting procedures and have the turrets dancing around on the main side of the machine but we haven't employed those strategies yet out of desire to keep the machine unharmed.

    We have a TT1800SY. It can feed all axis simultaneously (not sure about A (the subspindle)<but you want it still while machining. It has a 31i-B control which can do that. Either turret could machine on either spindle, but wait codes are required to safely bring a turret across the machine or you could crash the turrets together. I'm not sure anything normally breaks, wears out or doesn't work as stated. The live tools hate large chucks. Working around large chucks is tough so you should want the smallest diameter chuck that will do what you need to do. We have to use a lot of 3/4" ER extensions in radial milling operations in special 3/4" ER25 collets and we use teflon tape on the ER nut securing the 3/4 shank because they can and will try to come out of the live holders if the operation is too aggressive.

    You won't beat a turret machine for speed. The live head machines would be better for low volume production or work on large parts, or work that is nearly 100% milling, because the spindle quality will be higher then and your milling operations will be more efficient and only your tool change times will suffer.



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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    In the middle of programming a job - really the worst thing about twins is the programming. I paid a lot of money for Mastercam Mill-turn, and I manually program wait codes and part handling as well as part ejects. A better programming solution would really increase the desirability of these machines. They are very capable, but you have to play some seriously time consuming mental chess to program these machines.

    If you had a solid solution for those issues, the first part run offs would be a lot faster and less stressful as well.



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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    Thanks for the information. I just ordered the post processor for a 2S2T machine. I will see how it goes writing programs. As for milling, we will need more speed and less torque from the live tools. Have you ever used the speeder live tools?



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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    Quote Originally Posted by vfsi View Post
    I am trying to select a twin spindle twin turret machine, used, what do I need to know that is not obvious ............
    hi vfsi go & hire ur self at someone who has such a lathe; work on it; quit & buy that cnc

    ... and there will be a 2nd hand cnc that you know everything about it

    Quote Originally Posted by vfsi View Post
    we will need more speed and less torque from the live tools
    i seen just know that your 1st post is from december what have you done ? what cnc did you got ?

    about live tools, there are some holders with gear ratio <> 1:1 at ews :
    https://www.ews-tools.de/en/online-catalog/english.aspx
    https://www.ews-tools.de/en/online-c...h/machine.aspx

    kindly

    if you wish to be famous, first you have to succeed
    ... where is Sid ?



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    Default Re: Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

    Well first off, the only person dumb enough to hire me would not be smart enough to buy good equipment.

    We did buy a Mori Seiki ZT machine. It looks well maintained and appears to run smoothly. Now the fun begins.



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    Quote Originally Posted by vfsi View Post
    Thanks for the information. I just ordered the post processor for a 2S2T machine. I will see how it goes writing programs. As for milling, we will need more speed and less torque from the live tools. Have you ever used the speeder live tools?
    We have wto 1:3's, heimatech 1:3's, and bmt 55 mdtool 1:2's. They typically arent quite as rigid as std rpm live tools but when you maybe slightly adjust a feed or accept a slightly worse surface finish, they work fine and can save a lot of cycle time.

    You will not imo get 1000 hours out of them. Their lifespans might be 40% of that prior to rebuild so there is a cost associated to them. We find them really nice to have though so that certain jobs dont run like total ****. Aluminum for example essentially loves to have speeders.

    We run regofix recoool adapters and 1000psi coolant also to keep the tools flushed and sometimes tools go 4000 minutes in aluminum or 300 minutes in 17-4.



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Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?

Are Twin spindle Twin turret lathes as complex as they look?