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  1. #41
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    Default Noise problem solved

    I believe I have the noise problem solved. I was accidentally shipped an earlier revision of my breakout board that had some minor issues with the high speed opto isolators. I just installed the latest revision of the board and my scope screen looks perfect. Tomorrow I will start back on tuning my Pixie 100 cards. Thanks for all the suggestions.

    Vince



  2. #42
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    Default Noise problem

    I replaced my opto-isolated breakout board with a non opto-isolated one and all the problems went away. I am now able to rapid all the axis at the same time at 200 ipm smooth as glass, no lost steps. I could probably go to 300 ipm, but the mill is still up on 4x4 blocks waiting for a move and it rocks more than I am comfortable with.

    Now that I have the drive system up and running, I am moving forward with some of the other controls. I hooked up the powered draw bar and after replacing some air lines, it works well. I am at a loss though with how the spindle brake was connected. It should interface with the draw bar or the draw bar will spin the spindle. I can't figure out how they did that. The brake has a solenoid that operates the brake. The brake needs to engage on both the tighten and loosen cycles of the draw bar. The only way I can see to make it work is through 2 relays, and it was not hooked up like that when I got the machine.

    I also need to run the fault and reset signals to the control panel. Otherwise I have to open up the pendant to reset the drive. I tend to fault the drive by not having the drive power on before attempting an axis move.

    Anyway, things are looking up. I had spent almost 2 weeks trying to track down the noise problem.

    Vince



  3. #43
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    I went back in to work today and scrounged up a couple of 120V ice cube relays I could use to make the spindle brake work. I wired them up so that the brake would engage when either the drawbar in or out is run. It works well. I did not think it would make that much of a difference, but the draw bar engages much quicker and smoother with the brake on.

    The next step will be wire in the automatic one shot lube system, and then start on the spindle control. I ordered a card that will change a step signal into a 0 to 10V signal the VFD requires. I also need to get the manual spindle controls and coolant controls wired in. These are going to be a little trickier as I have to work in a holding circuit.

    Vince



  4. #44
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    Putting the noise issues behind, I have been moving forward. I added a power feed for the knee. That big knee is just too much work to crank up and down.

    I have been running test to see how well the repeatability of the machine is. You can see in one of the pictures I have been using the roadrunner file from Mach 3. The lines overlap perfectly. There is a double image in the picture because I did not want to change paper and just moved the origin a little and did another couple of runs.

    I have the VFD running under Mach 3 control. I did find a problem though. My VFD has to have an open circuit on both the forward and reverse direction pins when it is powered up, but with the speed control board I am using either one or the other is always closed. I figured out that I will run the signals though my EPO switch so when I start the VFD the EPO will be open and both the direction circuits will also be open. I will also run the 0 to 10V speed single through that circuit for added safety. The EPO actually controls a couple of 4 pole relays so I can have 8 circuits controlled by the EPO.

    The pictures are of the power feed, the pixies, breakout board and speed control board, breaking resistor (under the VFD), and the roadrunner drawing.

    Vince

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yamazen CNC knee mill-kneepower-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-brakingresistor-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-pixie-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-roadrunner-jpg  



  5. #45
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    I have been getting more into the controls now that the machine is running well. The Pixie cards can all be wired together so that when one faults, they all fault. I decided to wire them this way for safety. For instance if the Z axis faulted when it was supposed to retract, the X or Y axis could crash the tool. The Pixies can also be wired so that when you reset one, they all reset. I did that as well. I mounted a lighted switch on the control panel so that when a drive faulted, the switch would light up. Pressing the switch would reset the drives. I needed some way of having the Pixie light up the switch. I found the solution at http://www.cncbuildingblocks.com. They have an 8 relay board that will take a TTL signal and control a relay. In addition to the Pixie being able to fault each other, any of the fault signals can also supply a TTL signal at the same time. The relay board arrived yesterday and I wired it up like the manual said and it worked the first time. My lighted switch had a 120V light so that is why I needed the relay.

    After playing around with it, I found that I had another problem. If the servo drives are enabled and the Pixie’s are faulted, the motors will creep. I thought about it over night and when I woke up this morning I had the answer. If the Pixie TTL output could drive a second relay, I could use that to tie into my EPO circuit which disables the servo drives. It also has the added benefit of shutting down the VFD that is driving the spindle.

    After work tonight I wired in another relay to the Pixie fault output and tied that relay through the EPO wiring. It all worked. Now if a Pixie faults, it shuts down the spindle, servo drives and lights up the switch.

    Next on the agenda is to install a latch on the pendent enclosure so I can open and close it easily. Currently is has two screws that hold it closed. Then it’s on to the manual/automatic switches that are mounted to the front of the quill in the original configuration. I would like to get them working again. I am thinking that I might be able to use the CNC building blocks relay board for them as well.

    Vince



  6. #46
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    It turns out that I did not have a noise issue after all. The noise was generated on the break out board itself. I am using a different version of the board now and everything is going great.

    I installed the latch on the pendant box. This enables me to open and close it easily to turn on the computer.

    Thursday is moving day. I re-arranged my garage to make room for the mill. I am having a machine mover bring it from my work to my house. I removed the head to I can fit it through the garage door. Once I get the mill in place I will have to hoist the head up from the roof joist and set it in place. It is so tall that the head will have to fit between ceiling joist. I will take some pictures tomorrow and again on Thursday.

    Vince



  7. #47
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    Default Moving day

    The machinery mover I hired picked up the mill at my work and delivered it to my house. They place it in the garage, but could not get it into the final location due to the low ceiling. They could have moved it all the way, but that would have cost more. They charged me $350 for a move of 7 miles and about 2 hours total. That was $300 less than any other quote I received.

    I moved it by myself about 15' to its final location using pipes, Johnson bar and a pinch bar. To get it off the 4x4 block I had to tie a rope to the blocks while lifting it with the Johnson bar. It weighs 4,000 pounds. After getting it in place, I used my engine hoist and a hoist (attached to the rafters) to lift the head in place, again by myself. I made some custom bracket to lift the head so it would be level as I raised it. The whole process to move it in place and put the head on took about 2 hours.

    I have some pictures of the process. My dog watched from the bed of my truck, looking quite bored with the entire procedure.

    Vince

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yamazen CNC knee mill-mill_ready-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-bored-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-moving-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-in_place-jpg  

    Yamazen CNC knee mill-head-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-done-jpg  


  8. #48
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    Just an update since my last post. I built a plastic housing around the bed to contain the coolant. It works well with very little coolant getting out.

    I had it running as fast as 450 ipm (in its original configuration it would go 100 imp), but it was going to take a lot of tuning to get it to run like that consistently. I slowed it down to 270 ipm and have not had so much of a hiccup.

    I am using a CNC4PC modbus board to give me 12 more inputs and output. I need these to control the coolant, external spindle start and stop was well as a few buttons I am adding to the control panel.

    Here is a video of it moving along as 270 ipm.
    [ame]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3686030068739958567&hl=en

    Vince



  9. #49
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    beautiful work N4NV only wish the items where in my garage


    cheers



  10. #50
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    Default Z axis limit switches

    My mill has been running great except for one thing. The Z axis limit switch trips at certain RPMs and cutter feed rate. It happens about once every 30 or 40 minutes of cutting. When the switch trips, Mach does and e-stop and I loose my X, Y and Z positions which then requires me to re-zero everything then do a “cycle start from here”, a pain in the butt. The limit switches are high end Omron (about $100 each). I tried varying the debounce interval, but it still did it when I passed 5,000 on the debounce.

    Since completing the mill, I started on a Hardinge CHNC lathe. The Hardinge uses Hall effect switches for all limit switches. Once I saw how well the Hall switches worked, I figured they would great on the Z axis of the mill since they would be immune from vibration. I purchased several Hall switches DigiKey:
    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...e=US5881LUA-ND
    These switches are only $2.30 each. I made some switch mounts out of Delrin and epoxied the switches to the Delrin. Kirk had given me some 1/8” diameter magnets that are some special material and very strong. I epoxied one of these magnets to the Delrin piece mounted to the Z axis ball screw (see pictures).

    The switches are three wires, 0V, +3.5 to 24V and output. I wired two switches in parallel (one for Z+ limit and one for Z- limit) to a CNC4PC C11G board with a 1K resistor across the +5V and pin 12 input. I then set up Mach for pin 12 active low. I lined up the switches so the magnet would pass about 1/8” away from the Hall switches. I ran the Z axis to both upper and lower limits and they worked perfectly!

    After getting the switches adjusted I ran some test on the repeatability of the switches. I used a Mitutoyo digital dial indicator that reads to 0.00005” and is accurate to 0.0001”. I was amazed at the results. The Home Z axis repeatability was +- 0.00015”. No wonder Hardinge used this type of switch on their lathe. Just for the giggles I checked the back lash and found the Z axis to have 0.0004”. I kick myself for waiting so long to fix this problem. The total cost was less than $5 and some scrap Delrin, wire and a 1K resistor.

    In the pictures of the switches, the white stuff over the wires is and epoxy putty to hold the wires in place.

    Vince

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yamazen CNC knee mill-switch1-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-switch2-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-switch3-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-switch4-jpg  

    Yamazen CNC knee mill-magnet-jpg  
    Last edited by N4NV; 12-20-2008 at 11:57 PM.


  11. #51
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    Awesome tip on the Hall effect switches!

    I'll bet they'll last forever with no moving parts too.

    Cheers,

    BW



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobWarfield View Post
    Awesome tip on the Hall effect switches!

    I'll bet they'll last forever with no moving parts too.

    Cheers,

    BW
    They should last for a while. On my Hardinge CHNC which is 28 years old, there are 19 hall switches for limits and all that I have tested still work properly.

    Vince



  13. #53
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    Default Speed sensor

    The Hall limit switches went so well, I moved ahead and made a speed sensor for the spindle. Up inside the top of the head where the quill shaft goes through the upper bearing, I saw enough room to mount a magnet holder to the shaft and there was a stud coming through the upper housing to mount my Hall sensor. The quill shaft had a keyslot machined into the shaft. I would use this slot to keep the mount from rotating on the shaft.

    I drew up a tool path for the magnet mount in AutoCAD, saved it as a DXF file and imported it into Mach LazyCam. LazyCam generated the G-code for Mach. I cut the mount out of a scrap piece of Delrin I had laying around. Here is the Video:

    "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i42uwfk75i0"]YouTube - Machining a magnet mount

    I cut the finished mount off of the block of Delrin with a chop saw, cut it into two pieces with a hack saw, threaded one half for 6/32 screws and machined a small hole for the magnet. The magnet mount has 4 raised bumps on it so that it would not cause a balance problem with the quill. Epoxy was used to secure the magnet.

    Installing the magnet mount was quite a task as I could get one hand in the access hole, but then could not hold on to a tool. I only dropped two tools into the quill head. If that don't get your hear thumping, you're one cool cat. I retrieved both tools with a magnet on a string. With the magnet mount in place I could take the measurements to make the Hall sensor mount. That too was made out of Delrin.

    I soldered a shielded 4 conductor cable (only used 3 conductors) to the Hall sensor. I held the sensor in place with epoxy putty. After the putty dried I sanded it down so it would not interfere with the magnet and would clamp flat to the top of the quill housing.

    I had to remove my touch probe connection to the break out board as I was out of inputs. I used a 1K pull resistor across the 5V and pin 12 and set Mach for active low. When I ran a test it did not work. After removing the Hall sensor I found that I had installed the magnet backwards. The Hall sensor is only tripped with the south pole of a magnet. If you have a compass, the south of your magnet will attract the north pole of the compass.

    I had to remove the magnet mount, pry the magnet out of the epoxy, re-drill a hole for the magnet, re-epoxy the magnet and re-install the magnet mount. After all that it worked great. It reads to the top speed of my mill at 4,000 rpm and down to 60 rpm. Below 60 rpm it reads 0.

    My next project is to make the same part for my lathe.

    Vince

    PS, the black tube in front of the quill housing is my fiber optic light pipe.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yamazen CNC knee mill-magnet-bracket-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-quill-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-hall-sensor-jpg   Yamazen CNC knee mill-installed-jpg  



  14. #54
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    hi vince
    how do you wire them up in parallel and how do the three wires attach on the board.
    im a newby at this and would appreciate any help.

    john



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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmb View Post
    hi vince
    how do you wire them up in parallel and how do the three wires attach on the board.
    im a newby at this and would appreciate any help.

    john
    I assume you are asking about the limit switches. All three leads just parallel. The ground leads tie to the ground terminal on the breakout board, the VCC leads tie to the +5V and the output leads tie to input terminal 12. I had to use a 1K pullup resistor between +5V and terminal 12 because the Hall sensor uses a logic low. On my CNC4PC board, each input terminal has a +5V terminal next to it which makes for easy wiring.

    Vince



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    Default Limit switches

    Well, I thought I had my problem with the limit switch tripping solved when I installed the Hall limit switches, but no, it still stripped. After a lot of testing I determined that all my limit switches were causing a fault. I decided it had to be a noise problem so I installed a 33uF cap (the only size I had on hand) across all the limit switch inputs. I ran my test program 3 times in a row without any trips (previously I never made it through the program)! Time will tell if this solves the problem for good.

    Vince



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    Registered mkenney's Avatar
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    I'm trying this setup and struggling so far. I have the same sensor's and swear I thought I have things wired correctly, apperently not. I have +5v going to pin 1 (VDD), pin 2 to the input on the break out board and pin 3 goes to the ground. I have a 1k resitor between the +5v and the input on the breakout board. I wave different magnets different ways and get nothing. What am I doing wrong, been one of those days?



  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkenney View Post
    I'm trying this setup and struggling so far. I have the same sensor's and swear I thought I have things wired correctly, apperently not. I have +5v going to pin 1 (VDD), pin 2 to the input on the break out board and pin 3 goes to the ground. I have a 1k resitor between the +5v and the input on the breakout board. I wave different magnets different ways and get nothing. What am I doing wrong, been one of those days?
    Try different values of resistor. With my CNC4PC card, some of the inputs required only 300 ohm. On my new PMDX board, no resistors are required. You can also hook up the VDD to +5V, pin 3 to ground and a volt meter between +5V and the output pin. If it is working you will see a voltage change on the meter. The magnet has to be perpendicular to the sensor and it only works with the south pole of the magnet.

    Vince



  19. #59
    Registered mkenney's Avatar
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    I had two threads where I was asking the same question, my fault! I'm moving over some info from the other thread to this thread to combine for both myself and other's to benefit from:-)

    Other Thread:

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73017

    I don't which thread is better to have the info in. Mine was on home and limit switches so easier to find searching but this is the thread that really started the discussion on hall effect switches. I yield to the admins and those who know better to tell me what to do:-)

    Quote Originally Posted by cadmonkey View Post
    I assume you're not really using application circuit 12.1 just what you have listed above correct? I would wire up the circuit in 12.1 exactly, hooking grounds to the ground on the BOB and the Vcc to the 5V on the BOB. Before hooking up the Vout to the BOB, do you have a multimeter or better yet a scope? Personally I test on a breadboard on the bench (electronics, not machining) before it goes near the controller.
    Quote Originally Posted by mkenney View Post
    Yep, just using what I listed. I ordered the 470pF capacitor that I did not have. Was trying to get away with just a pull up resitor as the orginal poster of this was able to do, not my luck I guess:-) I do have some breadboards and a multimeter and orginally bread boarded it and was never able to get any change in the output?? I assume when they say that the output is active low that it turns into a ground when the hall effect sensor sees a magnetic field, is this correct?

    Thanks for the help!

    Mark [mkenney]

    Mark [mkenney]

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Yamazen CNC knee mill-0004824_us5881_rev007-pdf  


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    Quote Originally Posted by N4NV View Post
    Try different values of resistor. With my CNC4PC card, some of the inputs required only 300 ohm. On my new PMDX board, no resistors are required. You can also hook up the VDD to +5V, pin 3 to ground and a volt meter between +5V and the output pin. If it is working you will see a voltage change on the meter. The magnet has to be perpendicular to the sensor and it only works with the south pole of the magnet.

    Vince
    Still working on it. When off the output pin is at .535Volts and when on it is at .022Volts. Any chance you could tell me what yours are showing. Starting to pull my hair out on this one:-)

    Mark [mkenney]



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