Skyfire CNC owners?

[rx8pilot]

Hi, I would imagine that if you were starting out to produce CNC mills with the size and price range of any Skyfire model.....you would be dead in the water before you got your first order if you designed your models to have dovetails or box ways.

Tell me you can't refurbish a machine with linear ways easier AND QUICKER than a worn dovetail or box way machine and with labour that has very little skill content compared to that required to work on DT's and BW's etc........it's practically a DIY week end project to do an overhaul like that.

This way of design thinking is like deciding to have ball races instead of bronze bushes for your moving components.......some very basic and modest design do have Oilite bronze bushes on their sliding ways.....so, it's horses for courses etc.
Ian.

I agree with that. There is a reason Haas is an all linear company - it is lower cost up front and practical to maintain for a very long time. In the early days of linear machines - they were generally considered 'light weight' for aluminum and other easy to cut materials. I have never needed to cut massive pieces of exotics for aerospace applications so have no real opinion on the linear vs box - but I do know that Okuma is AT LEAST 2x and sometimes 3x the cost of a Haas - so it must be fairly impoprtant for a lot of customers.

I fully believe there is a prime market for a comapny making $10k-$20k CNC mills that escape the hobby level limitations of Tormach but can actually deliver the hardware and customer support and easy access to spare parts. Skyfire at least got the specs right and seem to have made some excellent design choices. Perhaps they focused on low-cost so much that it makes them very difficult to build and get any business traction since the margins are presumably very small. They could use a business leader that can develop a supply chain and pricing model that is financially viable while simultaneously raising enough capital to prime that supply chain and get product ready to roll. It is not easy and there is risk, but no harder and no riskier than trying to bootstrap it with cash-flow from deposits.

[Roadstercycle]

I agree with that. There is a reason Haas is an all linear company - it is lower cost up front and practical to maintain for a very long time. In the early days of linear machines - they were generally considered 'light weight' for aluminum and other easy to cut materials. I have never needed to cut massive pieces of exotics for aerospace applications so have no real opinion on the linear vs box - but I do know that Okuma is AT LEAST 2x and sometimes 3x the cost of a Haas - so it must be fairly impoprtant for a lot of customers.

I fully believe there is a prime market for a comapny making $10k-$20k CNC mills that escape the hobby level limitations of Tormach but can actually deliver the hardware and customer support and easy access to spare parts. Skyfire at least got the specs right and seem to have made some excellent design choices. Perhaps they focused on low-cost so much that it makes them very difficult to build and get any business traction since the margins are presumably very small. They could use a business leader that can develop a supply chain and pricing model that is financially viable while simultaneously raising enough capital to prime that supply chain and get product ready to roll. It is not easy and there is risk, but no harder and no riskier than trying to bootstrap it with cash-flow from deposits.

I totally agree that there is a market niche for the home/pro hobbiest and although Skyfire has got the right plan there execution is not very good at all. Today I decided to give them my decision on cancelling my order. I wrote Jan and Defeng with my intentions of buying a Haas as it seems they do not have time to update my machines progress saying that the factory is too busy making machines to check to see where my machine is at in the build process, WHAT????. So as frustrated as I am after weeks of no status reports other than not be able to give me a status report I have asked for a full refund which was part of my decision to go with them. They said anytime before shipment that a full refund was available. Well I am using that right today. I really hate to do it as I was very excited for them to make it and take over tormach domain as the home shop go to guy's. Don't get me wrong, there's a place for Tormach in some peoples garage just not mine. Sad so Sad.
So now we can all see what it is like to cancel an order with Skyfire and see if they stand behind their refund policy. It should not be a problem as they have so much business that me being out of the way just opens a door for someone on the list that's behind schedule to get there's sooner. We shall see. After 2 months of waiting with no updates and me cancelling my order I would almost bet that some how my machine will miracuously be done tomorrow and be ready to ship. Any bets on that?

[rx8pilot]

For what wishes are worth.....I wish you the best of luck with the cancellation.

Maybe Tormach could use this as an opportunity to wrap their arms around a new design. Offer Skyfire a contract for the rights to the design and let Tormach setup a real supply chain and support network.

What Haas are you looking at? New or used?

[Roadstercycle]

For what wishes are worth.....I wish you the best of luck with the cancellation.

Maybe Tormach could use this as an opportunity to wrap their arms around a new design. Offer Skyfire a contract for the rights to the design and let Tormach setup a real supply chain and support network.

What Haas are you looking at? New or used?

I really have not decided on which Haas yet. I'd even take the Education Mini Mill with a tool changer and a couple add ons. I'm really not jazzed about the size of them except the little CM1 which has a 20 tool changer 35,000 RPM spindle but for $55,000 I'm out. Nice machine though, no idea why it's so expensive, fairy dust? It's the perfect size though. So I'm still looking at both used and new. There's used Mini Mill in ventura not too far from me that caught my eye. Again the size is killing me. The guy who used to own Fadel started building a nice CNC then he became to old and ill to continue and it went down. Someone is going to fill the niche for sure but when is the problem.
I'll wait for my refund from Skyfire then I'll pull the trigger on the Haas unless something else appears.

[rx8pilot]

I really have not decided on which Haas yet. I'd even take the Education Mini Mill with a tool changer and a couple add ons. I'm really not jazzed about the size of them except the little CM1 which has a 20 tool changer 35,000 RPM spindle but for $55,000 I'm out. Nice machine though, no idea why it's so expensive, fairy dust? It's the perfect size though. So I'm still looking at both used and new. There's used Mini Mill in ventura not too far from me that caught my eye. Again the size is killing me. The guy who used to own Fadel started building a nice CNC then he became to old and ill to continue and it went down. Someone is going to fill the niche for sure but when is the problem.
I'll wait for my refund from Skyfire then I'll pull the trigger on the Haas unless something else appears.

I also looked at the CM1 and it's predecessor the OM2A - both very compact and very expensive. I spoke with Haas about how the price is so severe. They had a reasonable response.....it's special and low volume. Other than the control, every single part of the CM series is specially engineered for that model. They share no parts with any other Haas model. The spindle is extremely precise, the volume is very low, etc......
For medical, small aerospace, and other small tight tolerance stuff - its pretty cool. For general purpose, it is a poor choice.


The mini-mill is going to require me to cut a hole in my ceiling, but otherwhise fits ok. The older 7.5hp mini mills also run on 1ph power - which is fantastic. I just spent over $6,000 on a solid state phase converter to run the new mini mill which is only 3ph. They are roughly 6 x 6 feet of floor space - not sure how much space you have. I am counting every fraction of an inch trying to cram that thing in my tiny space. Still - better than renting a shop.

[Roadstercycle]

I wonder if anyone took my bet about my machine being ready to go. I just talked to Jan and he said he had flown back to the Skyfire shop in China where he had a long conversation with Defeng since he was not getting any answers either. There are 12 units in the finishing stages and mine be the one closest to shipping out. Imagine that. Supposedly my machine is going into the testing phase next week and will ship in 2 weeks.

Here's the Email,

Hello Jack,

I am not sure if I told you but I decided to fly back to China and visit Skyfire to see for myself what is happening as I did not get any updates as well.

The good news is that your machine is almost ready and will go into testing next week. The shipping schedule is to ship your machine after 2 weeks.
I had along meeting with Defeng yesterday and told him that not having updates is a serious issue and he told me that he had to fire his previous assistant who handles the emails but I met his new assistant yesterday and she is working hard to keep us all in the loop.

There are right now over 12 machines almost finished in the shop and about 7 more more being build. Your machine is the one that is the furthest and is almost completed, the VFD just came back with the latest software and was being installed while I was there. The rest is just finishing up final mechanical adjustment for the ATC. Ten it goes into testing and will run for a week before we ship.

Hope this helps and yes, Skyfire has not been good in updating us and that forced me to fly all the way back to China to get the updates we need. Attache is a picture from your machine so you can see it really exists.

Thank you very much in advance and best regards,

Jan Bos


Anyway here's the picture.

[louieatienza]

I really have not decided on which Haas yet. I'd even take the Education Mini Mill with a tool changer and a couple add ons. I'm really not jazzed about the size of them except the little CM1 which has a 20 tool changer 35,000 RPM spindle but for $55,000 I'm out. Nice machine though, no idea why it's so expensive, fairy dust? It's the perfect size though. So I'm still looking at both used and new. There's used Mini Mill in ventura not too far from me that caught my eye. Again the size is killing me. The guy who used to own Fadel started building a nice CNC then he became to old and ill to continue and it went down. Someone is going to fill the niche for sure but when is the problem.
I'll wait for my refund from Skyfire then I'll pull the trigger on the Haas unless something else appears.

He used to post here... David Decaussin?

Sorry to hear about your wait with your machine, hope all turns out well one way or the other...

SYIL was selling linear rail mini-mills before SkyFire came about. I've never seen one personally but they look really good, and the prices seem right. I thought I remember Defeng saying he worked for them in the past?

[handlewanker]

Well, what can I say.........patience is a virtue.....put some petrol in and you can get in and drive away......LOL

It took just 10 days from China to Melbourne for my mill to arrive.......then 2 more days to clear customs .......better be planning now for the off load as they are a bit heavy and hard to hold.
Ian.

[rx8pilot]

This is awesome news!

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[rx8pilot]

Even though I went a different route - I am still very interested to follow SkyFire progress. If they gain some traction - Tormach is going to have to step it up to keep up.

[MrBean_pm]

For those on a budget, they are nice little machines though, below a pic of my SMV-2.

Cheers,
Beano

[Roadstercycle]

For those on a budget, they are nice little machines though, below a pic of my SMV-2.

Cheers,
Beano

Where's the rest of it? Did you tear it down to get it in your shop?

[MrBean_pm]

Yeah Mate, I got the machine a year ago already, and removed the Pneumatic Drawbar to be able to hoist it in position.

The Auto Tool Changer and HS Spindle shipped with the new enclosure I ordered, I will open a build-log and post progress pics there. The enclosure is the full-size SMV-3 VMC enclosure as shown on the Skyfire website.....

There are water pumps, inverters, etc not shown in my photos, which is in a box in my garage.

Cheers,
Beano

[rx8pilot]

Have you been using it without an enclosure? What control? What spindle? What have you been making?

[MrBean_pm]

@RX: Nope, have not been using it at all, as my travel for work took me global ~every 2nd week - was just to hectic.

Starting to find a bit more time for myself, and will finish this by year-end. I will do the controls and wiring myself, have just ordered custom servo motors last night, they will be 3 weeks out. On the controls, I am divided between going with PathPilot (have the license/software) /LinuxCNC and MESA 5i25/7i77 (again, have all the PC and control hardware already) or Centroid OAK board - just a pity the Centroid stuff is so expensive

Let's see, perhaps I will stick with the MESA stuff, seeing as I have it already.

Drive controllers will be with a Granite Devices 4x Cube and IONI standard drives, which I do have as well.

Will keep you posted via a separate log, which I will start in the next week or two.

Cheers,
Beano

[handlewanker]

Hi Msieur Bean....LOL.........that lift you showed in the pic is the most dodgy way to lift a top heavy load......you were lucky it didn't flip on you......seen that happen with a large diesel engine twice.......by the same guy.......on the second occasion, the next day, the engine flipped again, hit the concrete and cracked the crankcase side.....total scrap.
Ian.

[rx8pilot]

It looks like most of the weight is rather low in the casting and table. Being rigged at four points and the column is somewhat captive - probably not much of a risk to flip.

Centroid would be my choice if money was not an issue. It is about a pro as you can get in a DIY system. Next for me....LinuxCNC but only because I have a lot of experience with motion control design, tuning, as well as software design and coding. While I have never used it, the rumor is that it can do anything as long as you have the tech skills. Could be fiddly and take a while to get started.

Why did you not get a complete setup from Skyfire?

[MrBean_pm]

Re: the weight: RX is spot-on, i tested it at a few steps during the hoisting process and there never was any danger of it flipping. The SMV-2 has a rather small head-pack and even that was at the bottom of its travel, plus a lot of weight in the base. But anyway, just glad the thing is on the stand, now the real work can start.

@RX: I will probably go with the Centroid Oak board then, plus an additional 16x16 IO interface, These are just ridiculously expensive, tbh. $450 for 32 IO is pretty crazy, tbh. But such is life, hey. I did rather want to do my own wiring and electronics, et al, I am very comfortable in that environment, being from process control/instrumentation back ground. Nice and easy to troubleshoot if there are problems, plus, I rather do enjoy doing these type of projects....

Let's see how things work out, for now 85% certain I will go with the Centroid and sell off my MESA cards, as well as DMM DYN3 drives and servos. I will be using different servos and drives on this one

I think time to open a work-log, so as not to side-track this thread ...apologies, OP!!

[j3dprints]

Well, what can I say.........patience is a virtue.....put some petrol in and you can get in and drive away......LOL

It took just 10 days from China to Melbourne for my mill to arrive.......then 2 more days to clear customs .......better be planning now for the off load as they are a bit heavy and hard to hold.
Ian.

Cool, an Aussie with a skyfire - can I ask you where to find a pricelist? Are packages available for near 10k?

[handlewanker]

Hi....packages?........hmmm, that would depend on the model and the priority at the Skyfire end as options do take a bit more time to assemble as opposed to the regular web site catalogue item

Your best bet is to decide what you want to have in the package.

My "package" is a personally optioned SVM-0 mill.....that is a lot different to the standard catalogue SVM-0 which only comes with an ER32 fixed chuck non interchangeable spindle......then make contact with Skyfire.com and ask for a quote for whatever you want.

There are other models they make in the SVM range but the web site catalogue will list them as you want......they're a lot of bang for the buck to be sure.
Ian.