BobCAD, WOW!


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    Member Bob La Londe's Avatar
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    Default BobCAD, WOW!

    Wow! All I can say is wow. No I have not actually used it. I have not even started the demo version. Still I have to say, "WOW!"

    I downloaded the demo last night, then I downloaded all the third party stuff it needs to work. I went to bed while that was still installing. This afternoon I got a call from a high pressure salesman from BobCAD. I mean high pressure. I told him upfront I could not afford $3500 dollars for his software, and the only reason I downloaded the demo was becaus I was considering buying somebody else's copy and then paying BobCAD for transfering the ownership key. Pay for tech support if I needed it.

    He didn't like that much. He was bound and determined to sell me something.

    In the middle of all this he basically told me that the demo is 70% brain damaged, and then he proceeded to hard sell me. I tried to comment that I wasn't sure I wanted to commit to any price for a piece of software if I couldn't even try it and make sure it would work for me, "but it will work for me, "He will guarantee it.""

    He even offered me a smoking trade show deal of some kind on the latest software for a fraction of the price. He just didn't want to take no for an answer, tried to imply that I wouldn't get a legal copy if I bought it from somebody else, and just before he tried to set the hook with his smoking price he hit me with his kicker, "All these conversations are recorded so you can be assured anything I am telling you is true."

    He lost me then. After politely listening to his sales pitch for over 20 minutes he decided to tell me he had been illegally recording our conversation. (Probably just a sales gimmick, but either he lied to me or he was committing a crime.) Just for the heck of it I pushed him to tell me what his smoking price was. (I had to ask him six times.) It was a good price. Still I figure $10 would have been too much at that point.

    I'm sure BobCAD is some smoke awesome software, and I'll regret it for the rest of my life that I didn't buy it at his killer price, but I'm kinda pissed about all the time I wasted even downloading the brain dead demo now. I'm about 95% decided to uninstall the demo without ever running it for the first time.

    Wow!

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    Bob La Londe
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    Sorry you had to deal with that. My experiences with their salespeople over the past 3+ years have been nothing like that. They've been very fair and easy to deal with. Yes, they do call from time to time, but it's not excessive and no high pressure sales pitch. Mostly I've dealt with Mario, so I can't say about the other folks.

    You should go ahead and use the demo for a while. You might just find that it suits your needs. For the most part, I enjoy it and it works for me. I have my frustrations, but overall it has a lot of functionality and great bang for the buck.

    I honestly have never understood their pricing strategy. It seems like they always end up selling for a small fraction of the list price eventually. I'd call back, ask to talk to the supervisor, explain your experience and get some assurance that if you move forward, it will never happen again. Perhaps if they get enough of this feedback, things will change.

    Steve



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    Yeah they do use some high pressure sales people but I had no problem telling them "NO and sorry just wanna try it out".

    You have to remember salesmen are like predators and if they sense hesitation in your voice they will clamp down on you!!!



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    Ive dealt with it too. Once I changed my number, one company I was SURE to never give it to was bcc. They'll hound you till your blue in the face.



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    I'm deaf. I have no problems with phone calls. Emails on the other hand... Don't worry about losing the deal. As they pester you more, they come down in price.



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    Default $300 software

    BobCAD/CAM sinks. I mean it smells so bad it has ASS written all over the software. Sure the CAD works but the CAM just blows....

    - No Coolant Fuction: It is not possible to choose between Primary, Secondary, or Off for your coolant selection. At best, you in Hard code it into the post. But if you understand advance post functions, one can make coolant a selectable option but it just silly to me that the software engineers at Bobcad did not make coolant a selectable function already.

    - Tool Library: Good Idea, but it dose not work IMO. Manual tool? System tool? Why are you crashing bobcad? Don't you like using both?

    -Tapping Feedrate: It is not timed with the spindle rpm.
    example:
    85sfm with a 1/4-20 tap = 1298.7043rpm
    1298.7043rpm/20tpi= 64.9352 IPM

    This is correct except for the machine tools I am familiar with do not turn at 1298.7043 rpm. They only turn at whole numbers like 1298 rpm which would make the feedrate to be 64.9 IPM

    All the small issues I have ran into with BobCAD/CAM makes it frustrating for me to use. I sometime wonder if BobCAD/CAM employs anybody that knows how to program machine tools.

    For $300 BOBCAD/CAM is good, but it is only because other software in this price range is also clumsy to use. However, if one is to choose to upgrade BOBCAD with high speed pocketing, Predator verifcation, customer support, ect. you would be well on your way to purschasing other softerware you may find easier to use.



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    Moderator Allen123's Avatar
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    Thumbs up BobCAD's Bad Name

    You know as a CAD CAM user for many years now, I've heard the good the bad and the ugly about BobCAD software. Yet for some reason the company is still around and has more threads than almost anything else out there.

    1) Is BobCAD good software?

    Well for those who know how to use it they would say it is.

    2) Is BobCAD an aggressive sales company?

    YES they are, their sales team is relentless and they will do everything they can use earn your business.

    3) Should you do business with them?

    Well I guess that is up to you, you would have to evaluate your needs and their software, see if the two match up.

    BobCAD's doesn't get a bad name for it's software, it's mainly their sales team. Not to say I agree with the sales tactics, but sometimes it's more about what the software will do for you and how much it cost. BobCAD seems to understand this and will make you a ridiculous offer to earn you business.

    If you're a small shop and have a small budget and you need some software for mechanical design and machining, BobCAD might just be the right tool for you.

    You would have to download a demo and test it yourself. BobCAD-CAM | CAD-CAM Software for CNC Machines including: Mill, Lathe, Wire EDM, Laser, Plasma, Waterjet, Routers and much more.

    If you get a call from a salesman you know what to expect, so use that to your advantage. Play hard to get and the price will come down to something more than reasonable. Hell what do you have to lose?



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    Member Bob La Londe's Avatar
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    ROFL

    I did download the demo. In fact its such a large file that I left it to download and went home. Before I had a chance to install the demo the first salesman called.

    That's just a little more than aggressive.

    Now, if he had just listened to me when I said I needed to demo it first I might have gone further, but that salesman was so gungho to make the sale that he told me that I wouldn't be able to do anything with the demo. He just wanted me to make the purchase right then without even trying it.

    Now think about that for a minute.

    I did.

    Then I deleted the demo from my computer without ever trying it. I took me over a year to get them to stop calling me.

    So while I do appreciate your rationalized response I disagree. They are a little more than just aggressive.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    If you are still looking, give SprutCAM a try. VERY powerful for the price.

    Download it here:

    Downloads SprutCAM Your Safe Partner for wire EDM, lathe, milling, turn-mill, 2, 2.5, 3, 4 & 5 axis CNC machining - SPRUT Technology Inc.

    If you buy it, get the best price, and US support here:

    SprutCAM Software | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

    And you can try to see an honest comparison of features here:

    BobCAD vs. SprutCAM Discussion

    down a few posts from the top, along with the reason I am at the end of the road with BobCAD...



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    Moderator Allen123's Avatar
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    Default

    1


    Last edited by Allen123; 04-06-2011 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Deleted large font


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    Moderator Allen123's Avatar
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    Thumbs down CAM VS CAD CAM

    Well everyone in entitled to their opinion. BobCAD has worked for me, and I assume many other shops.

    In the end it's just software. Which ever product you choose just make sure it has the tools you need for the parts you need / want to make. There are many options out there in the market, it's all this product bashing that really just isn't needed.

    The best way to find out if BobCAD or any other software is the right choice for you is to do a live demo. Videos and downloads are great, but the one on one experience is the best. Really one of the biggest difference I see between lower cost systems and the high end stuff has to do with a salesman coming into your shop and showing you the software.

    Call up the software company tell them what you want to do and have them show you how do it in the software.

    If the tech you speak with can show you the software will do what you need then, their you go. Work with the sales team and get the best package for the best price.

    My experience with BobCAD is they are eager to help you, they want to demo the software with you and show you just what BobCAD can do.

    I started with BobCAD V15, so I have seen the company grow and the software mature. It's a good piece of software and I make money with it.

    Some of the bashing comes from upset users and rhetoric that really isn't based on the software itself but a person experience that you or I will never understand.

    Ever had someone rub you the wrong way, well that what happend Bob La Londe, I guess he feels it's his personal mission to look out for the rest of the world, or maybe it's just he way of getting the sales guy back for being a jerk to him ( in bob's eyes )

    It makes it hard to get "facts" out of the information and for me it's a big turn off.



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    This make me glad i used fake information when filling out their form. I hate salesmen, I try to avoid them when possible.



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    I've had a horrible history with Bobcad as well. I remember downloading Bobcad, Visual Mill and Dolphin cad cam all within a 24 hour period. No more than roughly 30 minutes after downloading bobcad, I got received a call offering there 2500 pkg for a today only special of I think $900 or so. Seemed to good to be true. I told the salesman I would be in touch, just to give me a few days. He seemed very offended by that. After about a month of evaluating the 3, I feel I made a good choice to stay away from bobcad. I ended up getting a pretty good price on Dolphin, also bought a license of VM. I feel they are both very nice programs. I use Dolphin a bit more, but VM definitely has it's place too. I don't doubt bobcad is a nice working package for many people, it just wasnt for me.



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    Moderator Allen123's Avatar
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    Default BobCAD SALES TEAM

    It wasn't a good package for you based on what?

    The sales staff

    Or

    The Features

    Or

    The Posting

    What was it about BobCAD software ( not the sales team ) that made it not the best solution for your programming needs.


    If you don't want to respond that's ok, I am just curious...



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    Member Bob La Londe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen123 View Post
    It wasn't a good package for you based on what?

    The sales staff
    Uh, yes.

    The Features
    The sales staff convinced me that it must have crappy features. Really. They didn't even give me time to install the demo much less try and it and when I tried to insist I wanted to try and make a few parts with the demo before making any decisions the salesman said, "YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING WITH THE DEMO."

    Now for whoever said I should ask them to come out and do a live demo... really? For $500-$600 dollars they are going to send somebody to my shop and do a demo. Maybe, but as aggressive as they are on the phone with more than 20 (probably several times that many) phones calls and who knows how many e-mails before I blocked them what if I say no to a guy standing in my shop? Am I going to have to drag him out feet first with a scratch awl sticking out of his forhead? (There were a few times when I got more than one call in a day.)

    What was it about BobCAD software ( not the sales team ) that made it not the best solution for your programming needs.
    I will never know. They blatantly refused to allow me to try to use the demo before going beyond sales to harrassment.

    If you don't want to respond that's ok, I am just curious...
    If you like Bob Cad, great. However, as a business owner I deal with plenty of aggressive ******* jerk telemarketers calling to sell me snake oil. The Bob Cad sales staff put a lot of those to shame for outright pushiness. I don't have the time to deal with that at all. I wanted to demo the software. They told me the demo software wouldn't do anything. End of discussion... or so I thought until about the 20th phone call. I informed them in writing that any further calls or e-mails would be considered harrassment and that I would report them. I had a call logged on my phone the other day from them. I looked it up. You have got to be kidding me. If I recall it was the day after my last post here in this thread.

    Not just one sales person, but every single one. I know everybody has to make a living. When somebody calls me to sell me something I give them a few seconds to see if there is any chance I might be interested and then I tell them no. That should be the end of it. Not with BobCad. 20 times no, e-mailed no, mailed written notice no. They refuse to take no for an answer.

    Like I said earlier. If they offered it to me for a dollar and free onsite diesign assistance 24/7 for a year I wouldn't buy their software now. If they sent me a free copy in the mail with all the unlock keys, dongles or whatever included I would have to think long and hard about whether or not I would install it or just toss it my nice industrial size dumpster unopened. If by some chance I did install it I would do a mirror of the drive and disconnect the computer from the network first. They do not engender trust.

    My private mission? Nope. My private mission is to introduce more people into tournament style bass fishing at an amateur / beginner level. www.YumaProAm.com

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    Moderator Allen123's Avatar
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    Thumbs down RANT

    Bob,

    Facts

    1) You never used the BobCAD software

    2) You never purchased BobCAD software

    3) You only ever spoke with 1 salesman at their company

    4) The grips you have are personal between you and who ever rubbed you wrong at their company.

    You have the right to say what ever you want about the salesman you spoke to, but really you have not right to speak about the software and what it can or can not do, as you never got a chance to try it right?

    I get your still upset about the whole thing, but give it a rest my friend give it a rest.



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    Allen you need to stop blaming everyone else for their own opinion. But the poster before CLEARLY does not like the software, nor your sales staff. I say your because it's very clear regardless what you say that you are affiliated with Bobcad.

    In regards to questioning me, I wasn't happy with ALL 3 aspects. The pushy sales tactics sucked, not wanting to give me the time and day to look over it. What's the point of offering a demo if you dont want your customers to evaluate first? The user interface seemed very confusing to me. Their were a few glitches if I recall to. Don't ask me to point them out because it was quite a while back. I dont believe it was even the newest version you have. The posting... well I never could produce a part with it.



  18. #18
    Member Bob La Londe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen123 View Post
    Bob,

    Facts

    1) You never used the BobCAD software
    Wow, you are so smart. You can bullet point to summarize out of context. I certainly would have tried it if not for the behavior of multiple members of your sales staff. (You do realize that you titled a previous post as sales staff right? Pretty much shows there isn't much chance on a nonselfserving response from you.) The first salesperson turned me off, but I might have gotten over it and tried if I hadn't gotten so many aggressive followups. I actually do trade with a couple companies I don't like.

    2) You never purchased BobCAD software
    Amazing. Yet another great example of bullet pointing to try and make an arguement ignoring the heart of the problem. Did you think that people reading this were too stupid to realize I could not stomach your behavior and just deleted your software. Even after I said so.

    3) You only ever spoke with 1 salesman at their company
    Um, no. I highly doubt that one sales person would have wasted his time calling me so many times, much less multiple times in a single day. On top of that I called BobCad twice asking that they cease and desist calling me and spoke to more than one person on each call. (I also sent written notice to cease and desist.)

    4) The grips you have are personal between you and who ever rubbed you wrong at their company.
    Personal yes. One person no. Unless you want to call me a liar again. Go ahead. I'm halfway expecting it. Of course its personal, unless you are one of those unethical ammoral twits who thinks business is just business and personal is totally seperate. Try that arguement with a cop and see if it keeps you from going to jail for a crime. What you do is what you do. Period.

    You have the right to say what ever you want about the salesman you spoke to, but really you have not right to speak about the software and what it can or can not do, as you never got a chance to try it right?
    You are not clearly presenting yourself as a sterling example of the intellectual capacity normaly apparent in the members of this forum. I do not have the right to say "whatever I want" about the fictional single salesperson to which you are referring. I have the right to say the truth about the aggressive boiler room snake oil sales tactics of the multiple people I had contact with at BobCad, and I have the right to state my OPINION that if they refuse to allow you to try the software before desperately trying to ram it down your throat it implies they must be paranoid that I wouldn't want to buy it after trying it.

    I get your still upset about the whole thing, but give it a rest my friend give it a rest.
    Ok, prior to this last sentence I figured you were just a salesperson trying to protect his livelihood. However at this point I need to point out that you are not my friend. I have hundreds of friendly acquaintences, but friends I can count on one hand. You are not in either group. It seems from your stance you are unlikely to ever get into either group.

    Give it a rest? No. People need to know if they download BobCad's demo software they could be harrassed unmercifully, and to just what extant I had to go to get it to stop. If you want this thread to die then stop responding to it and hope nobody else does either. I only ever respond when I get an email notifying me that somebody has posted defending BobCad again.

    Upset? More so by your response at this point than by BobCad's nasty sales tactics believe it or not. They did eventually stop. Well except for a phone call logged on my phone shortly after my last post on this topic. Was that you? Would you admit it if it was? LOL.

    Ok, I will be fair. Send me an unlocked copy of the latest version to evaluate. Give me dongles, codes, manuals, and anything else I need to use it and evaluate it for an indefinite period of time. Include with that a unconditional signed letter of apology for the harrassing sales tactics from the president of the company. Do not call. Do not email. Do not send me any other mail. I am not rescinding or withdrawing my request to cease and desist harrassment in any other way. I am giving permission to send me one package which must contain these things. If you do that I will refrain from responding to this thread for a period of six months (unless you slander me or make untrue claims) while I design and make some parts that I make and sell. If at that time I find that I feel BobCad is a superior (not equal) product to those I am currently using and is a greater value, based on the "one time only, expires instantly, right now only price" of $599,699,799,899 or whatever I will say so. If I do not like it, or if I feel that it is not a greater value or a superior product than I will say that also.

    I will not buy your software, not even for a dollar. I will not evaluate it even for free if not accompanied by an unconditional letter of apology.

    If you don't do that, then understand that every single time I get an email notifying me that somebody is trying to gloss over, ignore, or pass off the nasty behavior of an aggressive sales staff that I will respond with my personal experience and my opinion.

    Forgot this the first time, mostly because I don't think you have the nerve to call me on it:

    Bob La Londe
    PO BOX 5720
    Yuma, Az 85366

    ... and if I wind up on a bunch of junk mail lists I'll assume it was you trying to be clever, and whatever you do don't show up on my doorstep uninvited. Tresspassing is a criminal offense in Arizona.

    Last edited by Bob La Londe; 04-19-2011 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Added my mailing address.
    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    Member Bob La Londe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robotique View Post
    This make me glad i used fake information when filling out their form. I hate salesmen, I try to avoid them when possible.
    I have since learned. Mailinator is your friend.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    Not to get in the middle of this but...back to the topic

    BobCad has been very effective for me over the last 5 years. It has many flaws and the sales team can be difficult - if you have a problem with them repeat 2 times with some emotion "I am not buying today!"

    System stability is my biggest current issue with CAM V1 & SolidWorks 2010.

    I have moved away from V23 and don't do any CAD work with it due to the errors which occur in very complex surfaces. We CAD most things in SW but still use BobCAM V1 for toolpaths. I found BobCad to be the most powerful and economic software available.

    That "next step" to get away from V23's "geometric errors" was SolidWorks - add $5k.
    A CAM package for our new 5 axis will run $8-15K from other companies. Its hard to fault the product even at a 3500 price point.

    It does have problems but with support you can get around most and I have made a lot of money using their product.

    It does annoy me a bit that I usually pay more for the same product then most people and I have bought all versions usually complete from V18-V23. They don't owe me anything. But I am also moving on shortly.



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