Replacement for BobCad/Cam software

[Mini-MillX2]

Does anyone have any recommendations for software to replace BobCAD/CAM?

They no longer support "Hobby" versions and you now need to purchase the software at full price. Due to a licensing issue recently, I am exploring other options but not having much luck finding a suitable replacement. I thought that process would be easy, but not so!

I have a 4x8 CNC router and 99% of what I cut is 2.5D. BUT, I do occasionally have to cut full 3D parts so I have to have software that can do CAD and CAM 3D machining. Because 99% of what I do is 2.5D, I found products like Fusion 360 more cumbersome to work with. BobCAD allows me to just draw quick simple shapes in 2D, place points for holes and go right into CAM to run profile cut inside or out a line drawing and drill routines to drill holes. Again, that's 99% of what I use the machine for. It's so quick and simple but the software still allows me to do 3D when I need it.

The other packages I looked at are either more difficult to work with in 2.5D because they require the CAD to be drawn in 3D or work great in 2.5D but don't allow 3D or if they do they are expensive. Also, Although BobCAD/CAM is pricey for hobby use, at least I can keep it for years without a required annual renewal. The current version I have I upgraded in 2019.

The other really nice feature is that the CAM is built into the software so you can quickly run a CAM simulation and switch back to the CAD tab to fix any issues and just refresh the CAM screen and run the simulation again. Numerous times I have had to rotate parts to cut a different direction once fixtured in the machine. In BobCAD/CAM I can rotate and move the parts in CAD after generating the CAM and simply refresh the CAM to cut the parts without affecting any of the CAM processes or machining routines. Not having to go in and out of different software packages is a real time saver.

I know it sounds like I talked myself into keeping Bob CAD/CAM but I think there has to be other products that do what BobCAD does but better for me but I just can't seem to find it. Any recommendations would be appreciated!

[metalmayhem]

I honestly find the cad portion of bobcad sucks so all my designing is done in another cad software . Due to a move a while back my old personal email and phone number has changed which makes it impossible for sales to contact me anymore (which I don't mind ) . Because of that I have no idea what their upgrade options are , that is if they even offer them anymore like they once did .. I can't compare price point to other softwares since I haven't paid much attention to it over the past few years .

I tried fusion and it works but I don't like it for a multitude of reasons . A lower cost subscription option is solidworks for makers . I had a subscription for that over a year which I'd look at every so often over a morning coffee and I really didn't like the feel of that either .
Plus I don't have faith in subscriptions, or cloud based bs
Most of my work is surfacing and machining metal . I think if I was still running a router for wood products then I'd look at aspire or something to that effect . For 2d there is dolphincam and lesser known shopcam , both are reasonably priced and work well

What license issue are you having , did it drop the license ? All my older versions from what I am using have dropped their licenses , and when I try to reregister them they say they are in use . I'm not sure wtf happened but it's like they were all pinged around the same period of time . They don't support versions older than 5 now so I'm guessing they are dead in the water

It might be worth talking to someone in sales at bobcad if your happy with the software . If they still offer reasonable upgrade options then maybe stick with what you know and are comfortable with . Otherwise contact the support guys regarding your license

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I use Fusion, but like you guys did not like it much at first. I had been using MasterCam, and whether you like it or not MasterCAM is exceptionally good.

With Fusion I very much disliked the subscription model and that it is Cloud based, and will confess that I'd still rather a perpetual license. I have become used to
Fusion and the subscription model now bothers me less. What's the bet all your bank records, business accounting records and medical records and other stuff besides is already on the Cloud?
I'm afraid the idea of 'avoiding' the Cloud is just not a practical proposition these days.

Having said that Fusion is OK. The CAD part is OK, maybe not good, depending on what you are doing but certainly OK. The CAM is again OK. Its not as good as MasterCAM, but then its a small
fraction of the price too. Overall I rate Fusion as OK, it may not be the best of any one thing, but it does all things OK or better.

Where I believe Fusion really shines is that its a one stop shop, or at least trying to be. For instance it has a useful (OK rather than the very best, but OK) FEA module which I use.
I use the Electronics module extensively which is Schematic Capture, Circuit Simulation, PCB design. There are extension modules for Impedance matching design, Thermal Design.
There are other features that I don't use or particularly care about, but having FEA, Electronics, CAD and CAM in one package for $500/year is a winning combination.
I have bought a Fusion Machining Extensions subscription since I now have four axis and trunnion + fifth axis platter. All the genuine simultaneous five axis CAM solutions are $10,000USD or more
(perpetual), so I'd never have been able to afford simultaneous five axis BUT FOR Fusions Machining Extensions subscription.

All-in-all I am very satisfied that I'm getting value for money relative to competing CAD/CAM programs. I have a solution that does most things OK or better than OK, at a price and terms I can afford.
Whether you like or hate Autodesk.....you've got to say they have worked hard to produce a solution to get as many new customers as they possibly can. My business has benefited greatly that
they have done so.

Craig

[metalmayhem]

Hi,
. I had been using MasterCam, and whether you like it or not MasterCAM is exceptionally good.

Whether you like or hate Autodesk.....you've got to say they have worked hard to produce a solution to get as many new customers as they possibly can. My business has benefited greatly that they have done so.

Craig

Mastercam is an exceptional product and I loved working with it in a bigger industry than where I am now . The problem with mastercam is it comes with an exceptional price tag as well . It's expensive for many business's and it is far out of reach of a hobby guy . Personally if I was to run mastercam then that would be if / when I decide to drop a few hundred thousand or more into machinery . As it stands now their software value is equal to or more than my current equipment . I have no high and mighty moral standard so a bootleg would be inviting except for the fact I know a few different people who got nailed with it . Those guys paid through the teeth for everything that was unlocked rather than face prosecution

The problem with subscription is that the software is in full control of the company and the price , terms , and package can change at any given moment .
I don't have a like or dislike for autocad , they do what they do . What they are doing at the moment is a good tactic to put a hurt on their competition , but it's to their benefit and their benefit only . Eventually hobby guys will be choked out and subscriptions will be at a higher cost . It's crooked and the day will come that people will be forced to see it for what it's worth . I look at it in the same sense as a crack dealer who wants to take over the block , and take the other dealers customers .
At the end of the day none of these companies really care about the customer , it's about pulling in the most amount of money and proping themselves to the top .

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

What they are doing at the moment is a good tactic to put a hurt on their competition , but it's to their benefit and their benefit only . Eventually hobby guys will be choked out and subscriptions will be at a higher cost . It's crooked and the day will come that people will be forced to see it for what it's worth

I agree that Autodesk are competing to gain dominance in the market and that is entirely for their profit motive. I agree also that they could use that dominance in the manner you describe, but to date they have not.
My guess is that they will push the market (for profit) as far as they can but not so far as they start to lose market share. In short, I suspect the model we see now is likely to continue. If I'm wrong
I can of course cancel my subscription, it's not like I don't have the choice.

Right at this point in time:

I have a solution that does most things OK or better than OK, at a price and terms I can afford.

I'm no angel and would consider a MasterCAM crack, but do not want the heat, whereas I can afford Fusion.

Craig

[peteeng]

Hi Mini-Mill - I have been using Fusion for 1.5 years and like it. It is cheaper to run then the maintenance I used to pay on separate CAD and CAM and FE packages. Never need to update as its always updated and it does everything quite well. In fact its CAD is very robust once you get your head around its top down modelling vs bottom up as others do. You can make sketches and run cam from sketches by the way. I do that quite a bit. Its great to have the CAD and CAM integrated. Just select "design" change the part, go back to manufacture and update, done. It does have its quirks but I am learning to live with them as all other cad does. Support has always gotten back to me within 24hrs and have answered my questions which has been very good. Plus they escalate requests or issues to the features or fix it list regularly. I'm tough on the support team (especially in the FE dept) so I think Fusion is doing the right things... Peter

[Mini-MillX2]

What license issue are you having , did it drop the license ?

My computer crashed last November. Had to replace it. BobCAD could only be registered with the original License ID and Password from the original invoice that after moving 3 times in the last 5 years, I couldn't locate. After several calls and a call to the regional manager I was able to get them to send me a copy of my invoice, reluctantly. That scared me knowing if I didn't have that, I would have to pay $3K to upgrade. Just a couple of days ago I started up BobCAD and got a "License Not Found" error and was in the same situation. I was able to locate the invoice sent to me back in December but again, got to thinking I need to look elsewhere for software.

Since the sale of BobCAD in 2019 it appears they changed there sales tactics. They didn't hound me at all after sending me the quote to upgrade. No used car salesmen tactics. I'm also concerned that over time, BobCAD will die out.

[Mini-MillX2]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I think my best option is to just force myself to use Fusion 360. From a feature and price perspective, I think that is the best alternative to BobCAD/CAM for me and using the Personal version of Fusion I can test everything I need prior to making the decision to switch. The next thing I need to cut, I will use Fusion 360 to draw and cut out the parts to see the process all the way through.

[peteeng]

Hi Mini - Also consider Freecad. Once I stop paying for CAD and CAM I think its the best free software to use.... Peter

[metalmayhem]

a couple that might be worth looking at are mecsoft visual mill and sprutcam . Both are reasonably priced and functional . I'd lean more towards the mecsoft myself

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I looked at quite a few alternatives including Mecsoft. I did very much like VisualCAD/CAM.

The cost of VisualCAD/CAM at the current time is $2500USD for Expert, which is simultaneous three axis and indexing fourth axis. The Three axis toolpaths are a little below Fusion capability, but close.
The cost of VisualCAD/CAM at the current time is $5000USD for Pro, which is simultaneous four axis and indexing fifth axis. Overall this option is somewhat more powerful than Fusion Basic with regards toolpaths.
The Cost of VisualCAD/CAM at the current time is $10,000USD for Premium which is simultaneous fifth axis.

Fusion Basic is at the current time $680USD/year. Alternately you can purchase for three years at $2040USD. Fusion Basic has the CAC/CAM capability somewhere in between VisualCAD/CAM Expert and Pro,
ie between $2500 and $5000. Over a three year period Fusion is probably the better buy....over four or five years and longer the perpetual license looks to be a better buy.

The problem I saw was that lets say I did buy a perpetual license.....would I also buy the annual updates? Can I afford to spend either $2500 or $5000 and have it slip out of date?

The other issue is that for genuine simultaneous five axis Fusion Machining Extensions are $1600/year whereas VisualCAD/CAM is $10,000 plus annual updates. I simply could not afford to buy
VisualCAD/CAM no matter how good it is. And to be fair to Autodesk neither did I pay $1600USD/year either. I got the first year for $1200USD as an introductory offer. The second year they offered
a similar discount....so surprise surprise I renewed it!.

The bottom line is that Fusion Machining Extensions is the cheapest way to get genuine simultaneous five axis, at least for hobby purposes. If you are a large company then paying big fees
for high-end software might be appropriate, but for a hobbyist to access good five axis software (without using cracked software) then Fusion Machining Extensions is bloody good value for money.

My suggestion to OP is look very closely at what you actually need in terms of capability. It may well be that you could use with complete satisfaction one of the cheaper options like Standard ($1500) or
Xpress ($595), and if either of these packages are good enough then great....you have a cost effective choice. If however you want a bit more capability in the Expert or Pro range then Fusion
starts to look attractive, and if you ever think you might want simultaneous five axis then Fusion really looks good.

I must add that the Electronics Module, which I use daily for my business is the linch pin, that capability over and above the CAD/CAM component makes it a slam dunk choice for me.

Craig

[FastFarmer]

Thank you for all the suggestions. I think my best option is to just force myself to use Fusion 360. From a feature and price perspective, I think that is the best alternative to BobCAD/CAM for me and using the Personal version of Fusion I can test everything I need prior to making the decision to switch. The next thing I need to cut, I will use Fusion 360 to draw and cut out the parts to see the process all the way through.

Fusion is a joke. If you want 4th axes you will be paying $2K+ a year and then if your like me and leave the platform, you have to recam everything.

The best value cam by a country mile is Dolphin. V15 is stella and support is excellent. You will just need a good 3D Cad program.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
this is as good a round-up as I have seen.

https://www.cnccookbook.com/cnccookb...-the-best-cam/

Not surprising that the top end market is still dominated by Mastercam at 30%. Powermill, SolidCAM, GibbsCAM and Camworks battling for the minor placings.

Probably no surprise that the so called 'Tiered Market' is dominated by Fusion with a 45% share.

The low end market is dominated by CamBam and MeshCAM. Many others are mentioned (including Dolphin) but CamBam and MeshCAM constitute nearly 45% of the low end market.

The overall result is surprising, Fusion has a 25% market share of all markets with Mastercam and Aspire coming in with 12%. each. Thus Fusion, Mastercam and Aspire are nearly 50% of the
world market. Bobcad is slipping a bit with about 5.5% share.

Craig

[shineworld]

If you don't have incredible things to do try e-cam.
https://www.e-cam.it/?gad_source=1&g...wcB#quickstart

It uses ModuleWorks CAM and Simulator.

You can try freely it for 14 days and decide to buy it or use it for free on weekend.

[FastFarmer]

Hi,
this is as good a round-up as I have seen.

All this data is way out of date and I would seriously question the source. Fusion was good in 2021. Free for hobby guys back then, and I was getting 4th axis for free as part of the standard price. Now it's in the machining module at $1500 extra a year.

I recommended Dolphin, and back then it was bad. Lacked a lot of stuff from adaptive to proper rotary support. But now it's great.

And, if Vetric add adaptive toolpaths in V.12, then my bet is you will see a lot of growth from them as well.

[metalmayhem]

I'd like to know where those percentages come from . Cambam , vectric , meshcam and the likes are no where near the same calibre of mastercam , gibbs or seimens . I don't know how or where they would fall on the same list

I can see fusion as having a dominance when it comes to numbers of users . I'd say most of those numbers are hobby users or small business . Before that their best offering was inventor if someone wanted something with integrated cam , and that has a heavy price tag . They bought and destroyed delcam . Artcam had a large user base which are now a bunch of orphans , and the remaining powermill will probably be on the chopping block soon as well . Those softwares had perpetual licenses and autodesk changed them to subscription and gave little to no support to delcam's existing customers . They want to have too much control over their customers while absorbing as much of their money as they can . A guy has to wonder what the catch is behind offering a powerful software like fusion at a fraction of the cost of their single seat of 3ds max

Onshape looked super promising when it came out and the subscription price was decent enough to consider . It wasn't long before the name got out there and they jacked the price right up .

Mastercam and gibbscam both still dominate the industrial world and always will . Autodesk is too all over the board with their offerings vs those 2 companies who focus on one thing and one thing only .
Hobby users were limited before fusion came along which is why cambam , vectric , dolphin and bobcad were popular in these forums . The day is coming that guys will be back to using these softwares because fusion will be out of reach .

I've got dolphincam and it's an older seat which I have mixed feelings about , except it's good for basic stuff . I haven't tried it since heeks got involved in some of it's more recent development but there appears to be a lot of improvements .
Similarly shopcam is great for working off 2d dimensions and it's only $400 for the mill and lathe modules . It also comes with a hasp so a guy can bounce from one pc to the next . I use it every so often for lathe programs if I'm feeling lazy , otherwise I always hand code for the lathes .

As mentioned above , ecam looks interesting and I've been following it's development . It very well may turn into a great software if they keep going with it

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

I'd like to know where those percentages come from . Cambam , vectric , meshcam and the likes are no where near the same calibre of mastercam , gibbs or seimens . I don't know how or where they would fall on the same list

The CNCCookbook article broke the market into three segments, Pro, Tiered, and Low End.

Mastercam, Gibbscam and SeimensNX are top end products and might reasonably be compared to each other. Fusion and Vectric are in the Tiered category, where depending on the modules purchased
can range from simple as befits hobbyists but with those added modules can compete with top end products. CNCCookbook place Cambam and Meshcam in the Low End segement and they too might
reasonably be compared.

To compare Mastercam and Cambam is not especially helpful. Comparing products within their market segment....yes, but to compare products from widely different categories (cost) probably not.

I can see fusion as having a dominance when it comes to numbers of users . I'd say most of those numbers are hobby users or small business .

I must say I was a little surprised that Fusion had as big an overall market share that it does......but I suppose then that has been Autodesk's strategy from the outset. I myself started with Fusion
strictly as a hobbyist and that use has morphed into a business. I well believe your estimate that many users are hobbyists and small businesses.

Free for hobby guys back then, and I was getting 4th axis for free as part of the standard price. Now it's in the machining module at $1500 extra a year.

Fusion is still free to hobbyists and startups. Back when I started using Fusion it did some simultaneous four (one toolpath strategy) axis as part of Fusion Basic, while today it does indexed four axis only in Basic.
If you want genuine simultaneous (three toolpaths strategies) four axis then yes, you require Fusion Machining Extensions. Machining Extensions give you not only simultaneous four but simultaneous five axis,
collision avoidance and toolpath editing. So you do get good value for the $1500/year when compared to any other software offering simultaneous five axis but would agree that its expensive if all you require
is four axis.

Craig

[FastFarmer]

As mentioned above , ecam looks interesting and I've been following it's development . It very well may turn into a great software if they keep going with it

I'd never heard of it until I came here (which I rarely do) and it looks surprisingly EXCELLENT.

[metalmayhem]

Hi,
The CNCCookbook article broke the market into three segments, Pro, Tiered, and Low End.
Craig

I missed that , anytime I see cookbook mentioned I gloss over it like a fat kid glosses over a celery stick at the corner store . I wouldn't take his opinion as gospel .

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

I wouldn't take his opinion as gospel .

No, your right, and I don't, but it still the best summary that I have found. He did a survey, and these are the results of that survey.....so better than nothing.

Craig