Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

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    Default Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1
    After many days of research, decided to give UCCNC and UC300ETH a try based on the feedback of consumers. I’ve been reading about the controller in general and half of what I read is like it was in a different language. Does anyone knows of a build thread that is detailed documented? I guess the easier way for a beginner to learn is by looking at what others have done and the rationale behind their selection
    I have a BOB that came with the DQ542ma drivers. Any experience with those Chineseum BOBs? Should I consider the UB1?

    Background for those interested:
    I am running Grbl loaded on an Arduino and pair with DQ542ma and decided it is enough. I have not had good experiences with that controller. Very unreliable.
    I have an Openbuilds CNC. Yes, those with the flimsy alum extrusions and with plastic V-wheels for motion. I am now working on my machine upgrade made out of steel and alum plates with linear rails and ball screws. I have not selected a spindle yet since my existing machine uses a Makita router.

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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    If you don't know if you need the UB-1, then you probably don't.
    You might be better off with a UC400ETH and a pair of cheap breakout boards, either the $10 chinese ones, or maybe a pair of C10's from CNC4PC.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    If you don't know if you need the UB-1, then you probably don't.
    You might be better off with a UC400ETH and a pair of cheap breakout boards, either the $10 chinese ones, or maybe a pair of C10's from CNC4PC.
    I would prefer to chose the alternative to the Chinese BOB. You said a pair of C10's. How many would I need for 4 drivers? are the promixity sensors wired to the BOB along with hold resume and cancel buttons?



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    4 drives is 8 outputs. feedhold and cancel buttons are 2 more outputs. The limit and home switches take 1 to 8 inputs depending on how you wire them. And you likely want one e-stop input too.
    Now you can check the BOB to see how many I/Os it has and calculate.



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    In my opinion, this is the absolute minimum of I/O signals a router needs:
    - STEP and DIR for each stepper driver;
    - Common ENABLE signal for the stepper drivers;
    - Spindle On;
    - E-Stop mushroom;
    - Home switches (you need a minimum of two inputs if you are using a slaved axis);
    - Tool height sensor and/or probe.

    That's 9 outputs and 4 inputs so far. Add to that all the fancy stuff you want to have: limit switches, spindle tachometer, spindle speed control, spindle direction, coolant, feed hold button and so on.



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Personally, I'd go the UC300 for the small price difference. You get analogue I/O and extra digital I/O if you ever need them.

    Look in the manual at the trigger inputs and outputs. Do you think you may ever have a use for some of them. If so you may need the extra I/O.

    Would the analogue I/O ever have any use for you.

    Good points about the UB1 are:

    Opto isolation.
    24v I/O for better noise immunity
    Charge pump
    Nice compact solution
    LEDs for all I/O



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Yes, the UC300ETH is usually a better choice, just because of the price.

    Ask yourself these questions.

    Do you want 24V I/O, or is 5V fine?
    Do you want analog inputs for FRO and Spindle Override?.
    Would you prefer differential step/dir signals?
    Do you mind spending $180 for a quality breakout board, or would you rather spend $50 or less?

    The UB1 is expensive, but to me it's worth it.
    Others find $10 breakout boards work fine for their needs.

    The extra $125 you'll spend for the UB1 is probably a very small percentage of what you'll spend on your machine, so it makes sense to many.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Thanks for the suggestions. It does make sense to pay the extra and not limit myself so I will be going with the UC300ETH. I still need to figure out what does all of the terminology thrown at me in the last posts mean
    - analogue and digital I/O
    - Opto isolation
    - 24V I/O Vs 5V I/O
    - Charge pump
    - step/dir signals
    I'll continue my research to fully understand your recommendations. To me, reliable beats price. If both are reliable then I would try and save where I can. I will not be using this machine daily to be spending more money than required.



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Ok, so this is my understanding after some research on the topic. Please let me know if the following rationale makes sense along answering some questions I couldn’t find answer for:

    • Both boards (UB1& 5LPT) and have 2 input and output analog ports, not a real benefit here going with the UB1
    • As mentioned below, the UB1 provides differential signal for step/dir, opto Isolation, and 24V i/o which reduces noise and makes a more reliable machine.

    Doesn’t the 5LPT provides differential signal for step/dir and opto Isolation?
    Is there a lot of noise complaints with the 5LPT? It seem that most of the main characteristics of the UB1 mentioned by other user are in regards to this topic.



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_Par View Post
    I still need to figure out what does all of the terminology thrown at me in the last posts mean
    - analogue and digital I/O
    - Opto isolation
    - 24V I/O Vs 5V I/O
    - Charge pump
    - step/dir signals
    - Digital outputs control things like stepper motors.

    - Digital inputs are used for things like limit switches, buttons and probes.

    - Analog outputs can be useful for controlling spindle speed and driving servos.

    - Optoisolation means that inputs and outputs have optocouplers to protect the controller itself and the computer. It is hard to imagine a CNC controller without optoisolation; even cheap Chinese boards have it.

    - 24V I/O is used on all "real" industrial machines. It is much more tolerant to noise and long cables. If you have a choice, it is better to avoid 5V I/O.

    - Charge pump is a form of a watchdog timer. The CNC software is constantly flipping one I/O bit on and off to tell the controller it's working. If the computer crashes or the program hangs, the I/O bit stops changing and the controller goes to E-stop.

    - Step/dir interface is how stepper motor drivers are controlled. Each pulse on the "Step" input tells the motor to make one step. The state of the "Dir" input determines the direction of the step.



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Doesn’t the 5LPT provides differential signal for step/dir and opto Isolation?
    No.

    The 5LPT is a "motherboard", not a breakout board. You need to connect a breakout board to each of it's 5 ports to use them. It's the breakout boards that provide the isolation (Not all do, though).
    Most breakout boards do not have differential step/dir.
    Most breakout boards do not have 24V I/O.

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Recent UC300ETH/UB1 build

    Mostly easy to use, better documentation than most hobby-level components I've come across.

    Overkill for our plasma table, but I prefer the 24v I/O and expansion capability. Lots of I/O means we can use the axis drives enable/fault features. Also the UB1 has a very tidy 'footprint' compared with multiple breakout boards and a 5LPT motherboard.

    Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1-20180816_203014-jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1-20180816_203014-jpg  


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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Ok, So I have decided to go with the UB1 combo. I am hoping the difference in price pays off by having a more reliable controller. Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions.

    Looking at the picture posted by spumco, I realized there are some components I have no idea what they are.
    So far I have 4 DQ542MA stepper drivers, the controller (UB1 +UC300ETH) and a 24V power supply what else do I need?



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    At a minimum, you need a power supply for the steppers. Anything else is optional.

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Basically you need (vastly simplified):

    - AC power in, and a way to turn it off beyond yanking the cord out of the wall
    - Overcurrent protection for main power (breakers/fuses)
    - Power to the spindle motor drive (probably a variable frequency drive)
    - Overcurrent protection for same
    - Power supply/transformer to power the electronics and axis drives - in all the voltages they require
    - Overcurrent protection for the DC powered components (fuses)
    - A way to disable everything without killing all the power
    - Signal wires between all the components - limit switches, drives, spindle, UB1, PC, etc.


    Suggest you download TinyCAD, which is a free wire diagram CAD-type software. Before you buy anything (else), draw a diagram of your whole system and work through all the functions.

    TinyCAD has a bit of a learning curve, but once you get a little proficient at it you can cook up diagrams pretty quickly. More importantly, when you get to the actual wiring it's a cake walk.

    If you ask nicely, I can send you a copy of my TinyCAD library which has custom symbols for stepper drives, a UB1, and all of the components you see in the photo. - it's high time I helped someone rather than being the pest on all the various CNC forums.

    In the photo (which is rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise, BTW) there are:

    (starting bottom right)
    - 5/12/24VDC (triple output) power supply fed by 240VAC (blue tape over it to keep junk out while wiring)
    - 2-pole 20A breaker for the incoming 240VAC (right, blue levers)
    - Terminal blocks to distribute 240VAC, a neutral (to feed the 120VAC recepticals which power the PC & monitor)
    - 5mm fuse holders for the 5/12/24VDC power (right, darker brown with black front)
    - Terminal blocks to distribute 12 & 24VDC power

    (Next row)
    - 240VAC contactor w/24VDC coil (supplies 240VAC to big toroid power supply)
    - 3 relays, all w/ 24VDC coils. Used to turn off/on all the components and are there so the operator control box only has 24VDC & signals - no 120VAC near the operator.
    - Terminal blocks to make signal connections (most are 24VDC signals - like limit switches)

    (next row)
    - a 48V power supply (big toroid thing) for the drives.

    (Top half, L to R)
    - 4 stepper drives
    - UB1 with UC300ETH mounted to it
    - Neuron Torch Height Controller brain box and plasma interface card (mounted to the brain)
    - Neuron THC ohmic sensing module

    (bottom R to L)
    Noise filter for incoming 240VAC
    Ethernet hub for PC to UC300ETH & Neuron THC. Our PC only has one ethernet port, so this takes care of the problem.
    Bulkhead connectors for control box
    120VAC outlet for PC & monitor
    Bulkhead connectors for ethernet cables from PC & control box

    You won't need all of these - especially the torch height control bits. Internet search for "CNC wire diagram" and look at the bilion ways everyone does things. Get a copy of NFPA 79 and read through it and see what grown-up requirements are.

    Regards,
    Ralph



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Thanks for the detailed run down, plenty of info to get started. I will definitely get a copy of the NFPA 79 and get to work. Will be posting my electronics diagram for comments once ready.



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Couple questions:

    - Where would the enable pins from my stepper drivers tie to in the UB1?
    - I plan on using 4 PNP prox sensors for homing (2 for the y and slave axis) wired to pins x310 to 314 as per the UB1 user manual, and 4 limit switches.
    Is it possible to wire the proximity sensors to serve as homing and as limit switches?
    - Any recommended noise filters?
    Thanks



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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    - Where would the enable pins from my stepper drivers tie to in the UB1?
    Y301-Y309, Y314, Y316 - You'll need a resistor if your drives expect 5V, as the UB1 outputs are 24V. See the manual for your drives.

    Is it possible to wire the proximity sensors to serve as homing and as limit switches?
    No wiring required. Just configure the same switches as both home and limits in the software.

    Any recommended noise filters?
    Noise filters are not usually used, unless your specific hardware specifies them. I've never seen any stepper drives that require them.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Y301-Y309, Y314, Y316 - You'll need a resistor if your drives expect 5V, as the UB1 outputs are 24V. See the manual for your drives.
    Is the enable required or recommended? I see on other wiring diagrams that some use it some don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Noise filters are not usually used, unless your specific hardware specifies them. I've never seen any stepper drives that require them.
    I am following the wiring diagram on the UB1 user manual and they show noise filters between main power to the Power supply unit.
    Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1-capture-png

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1-capture-png  


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    Default Re: Newbie considering UC300EHT and UB1

    Is the enable required or recommended? I see on other wiring diagrams that some use it some don't.
    Depends who you ask. If this is your own machine, the only things "required" are what you want? Imo, no, you don't need to use the enable. That's why they are enabled by default. The Noise filters shown in the manual are for the Servo drives.

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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