Build Thread New to me Tree Journeyman 425


Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 12 of 30

Thread: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    I’ve wanted a cnc milling machine (and lathe) for a long time. After converting my router to Centroid Acorn, I knew I wanted my other machines to run their control as well. I just got this machine home. Was 150 miles away. Weighs 6000 pounds, CAT40 spindle taper, oiler, coolant, Baldor DC servos, 7.5 HP spindle. I think it’s a perfect candidate for control retrofit and will be a great first cnc mill for my shop. Seller needed it out of his shop. I got it for scrap value or a little under.

    I’ve done some searching and come up dry trying to find schematics. Would be helpful for the conversion.

    Plan is AllInOneDC, new VFD, complete rewire, cleanup, etc. I will be using a single phase supply into a Fuji Electric FRN0047C2S-2U 15HP VFD.

    I’m very much interested in/asking for input.











    Made it to my shop without incident.



    Delta 20 control.



    Similar Threads:


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Got the mill in the shop. Looks like good bones. Needs a thorough cleaning and a complete electrical rebuild. Lots of useable parts.









  3. #3
    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3970
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Looks like a fun project. One that I have done a few times.

    I would start by tracing wires from the field devices: Limit switches, prox sensors, pumps, ect. Write it all down, device, function, wire color, wire number, cable identifier, and connection points on both ends. Now you have an I/O map to work from. Then you can strip out all of the hardware that will not be used, but I would keep all of the heavy power handling components in place if they can be reused.

    Then create a new I/O map with all of the connections to the new hardware. Makes wiring it up pretty easy.

    I'll be watching your progress

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Jim,

    Thanks for the great advice. That's the plan. I'm currently trying to sort out a suitable spindle drive replacement that I can use with single phase power.



  5. #5
    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3970
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    My pleasure.

    You might concider a rotary phase converter to supply power to your spindle. That's what I did with my 10 HP lathe spindle, running it on a 10 HP VFD, but supplying that with the 3 phase from the RPC. I built a 15 HP RPC. I am running my 7.5 HP Haas spindle on single phase, but the machine was designed for single or 3 phase input.

    In that HP range there may be VFDs available that are rated for single phase input, but don't buy a cheap one off of EBay. Also you are going to want one that has sensorless vector control to maintain torque at lower RPMs.

    It is also possible that you could use the original spindle drive if you can find the specs on it. Maybe the documentation is available. Pretty sure that this would require 3 phase input, so a RPC would be a good option.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    The original VFD is not working. I don't want an RPC. I'm fine with buying a 15HP VFD. Will this drive do the trick Fuji Electric FRN0047C2S-2U 15HP VFD? It will work on single phase input, derated to 7.5HP/11KW, 26 amps.

    I'm a little foggy on the sensorless vector part of the conversation.

    Motor nameplate:


    Original drive nameplate:




  7. #7
    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3970
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    That VFD does have sensorless vector control (Dynamic Torque Vector control (Induction Motor)) It's a method of maintaining full torque throughout the operating range of the motor. It's done by electrical magic inside the VFD.

    https://www.wolfautomation.com/media...-seventeen.pdf

    But, your motor is rated at 39 amps at lower RPMs, and that VFD is only rated at 26 amps max when running on single phase. The original VFD is rated at 36 amps max. Spindle motors are kind of strange animals, they actually draw more current at low RPMs than at the higher ranges. My lathe spindle is running at about 90% load (current) at 300 RPM, but at 3000 RPM it runs at about 50% load with about the same torque generated throughout the range.

    https://www.wolfautomation.com/media...5-appnotes.pdf

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Can I run the spindle with a 26 amp limit (drive's output limit)? I understand it t would have less power.

    Or, do I need to accept a RPC is in my future until I have three phase service installed?



  9. #9
    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3970
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    A couple of problems with doing it that way. You could run the VFD in V/F mode with slip compensation off, but doing this would severely limit your low speed performance and could cause stalling under moderate load conditions. Also the speed control would suck at best.

    On some VFDs you can set the output voltage lower than the motor rated voltage, and then back down the maximum output current to about 75%. At least you might have a chance of getting it to run that way, but I have never tried it. But it's still going to trip out if it goes over current. And that is a really bad thing when the cutter is buried in the work, just make sure that the drive fault is tied into the E-stop circuit. At least there is a chance that you won't break the cutter and destroy your work when the drive faults out.

    I know you don't want a RPC, but it is really the cleanest method of running your spindle.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Thank you so much for the information, Jim!

    Is a 15hp RPC the right size? Any suggestions on that front? Any derating or anything?



  11. #11
    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    3970
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    With a 7.5 HP spindle, a 10 HP RPC would run it just fine. American Rotary is one good option, they have CNC rated RPCs https://www.americanrotary.com/

    Phase Perfect is another option, all solid state, no motor required. https://www.phasetechnologies.com/pr.../phase-perfect

    There are others.

    Or you could just build your own, sounds like you have enough electrical experience. Lots of information on the internet and a few build threads on CNC Zone I think. I may have a build thread on here for mine.

    The good news is that with a RPC you can size the VFD to the spindle without derating. But remember the full load amps when choosing a VFD.

    EDIT: A little more research indicates that a 15HP RPC would be a better match for that motor given its unusually high full load current for a 5.5 KW motor. Also, it looks like a 15HP VFD would also be in order, but a 10 HP would work if you don't push the machine to the max. I suspect the full load current is so high because of the 200V rating vs. a normal 240V motor.

    Last edited by Jim Dawson; 12-15-2019 at 12:57 AM.
    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    The good news is I could start with the 15hp vfd and single phase to get the spindle turning and see how it does. Then add the phase converter later. I appreciate your advice. Thank you!

    Wondering if anyone has schematics.. I can as-build if I don’t find them.



Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

New to me Tree Journeyman 425

New to me Tree Journeyman 425

New to me Tree Journeyman 425