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Thread: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

  1. #21
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Removed the Dynapath Delta 20 Control and servo drivers. Hoping I can get a few bucks for it all to help pay for the new stuff. The cabinets were like the rest of the machine. Absolutely filthy. A little better now.

    I could put the new control in one cabinet, but I think I’ll stick with the existing layout with the incoming AC supply and spindle drive in a separate enclosure. It’s already laid out that way.







  2. #22
    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    That's the way I would do it, power handling on one side and controls on the other. Really helps with the noise issues keeping the power and controls separated. Looks like the cabinets cleaned up nicely.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  3. #23
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Worked on the X and Y axis servos. Removed the 500 pulse encoders and tachometers. Mounting the new encoders looks straightforward. Half inch shafts in the two different servos.





    I’m thinking I’ll make a new end cover.



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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    You should be able to get rid of one of those cabinets. You could probably use the surplus one as emergency accommodation! With sensible (normal) wiring precautions including a proper EMC filter, you shouldn't have an issue with VFD noise. If you have to use two cabinets to avoid noise issues, your wiring needs another visit.

    Unless you plan to use this machine for hacking the top off large castings, it's hard to see how you could make use of much more than a few kW of spindle power on a continuous basis. Seems the motor is rated at 3.7kW continuous and 5.5kW peak which is about 5hp and 7hp respectively - so something like a Yaskawa 3.3kW drive (which is also specified with a similar short term peak rating, not surprisingly) would be fine. Even a non-industrial drive like a HY 5kW would probably suffice for most hobby work. The good news is that the spindle motor is a proper variable speed jobby, so should be happy to run at high speed all day.

    If you enter the motor nameplate parameters into the VFD, it should protect / prevent overloading the motor, without having to second guess and fiddle the values. Looks to me as if the HY inverters use sensorless vector control, which is pretty much the norm these days, would be surprised to see otherwise. Typically they boast of 150% torque at stall which is a bit of a giveaway.

    Looks like a fine machine despite its age, rather like my Shizuoka AN-S. Mine was a very similar size and spec to this but for most of its life almost certainly never came close to the sort of performance it provides nowadays when run with the modern HSM toolpaths you get with the likes of Fusion 360 / HSM Works. These paths allow a much smoother and more continuous spindle power profile with a higher MRR and less risk of overload. 3kW or so of spindle power will give a pretty impressive stream of chips that may challenge your ability to keep the cutter (and the vicinity) clear.



  5. #25
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Drive is the GT series 10HP/7.5kW. The braking seems to be working well.

    In V/Hz mode P0.00 = 0, the drive takes the motor up to full speed of 267Hz. When I change to sensorless vector mode P0.00 = 1, do autotune again, the drive only takes the motor to around 80Hz on subsequent starts. No matter what I do. Same if I go to torque vector mode P0.00 = 2, run autotune again, drive only goes to around 12Hz on subsequent starts.

    I disconnected motor from spindle, thinking that had something to do with the autotune not working.

    P2.00 = 0 (G)

    Decoupling has no effect. In SV mode output current doesn’t go above 3a (about half of speed no load current) and frequency ramp is extremely slow. It’s not limiting output current.

    I noticed autotune doesn’t change anything in P3 (SV) or P4 (V/Hz) settings groups. The manual says the RUN/TUNE LED will flash during autotune. It’s on solid during TUN-1. It does display -END- when complete as motor stops at decel rate. No parameters change.

    For whatever reason autotune does not change anything in group 3 (sensorless vector) or group 4 (V/Hz). It’s not hitting any current limits.

    Emailing back and forth with HY tech support.

    Muzzer- we are on the same page. One of the reasons I’m leaning toward keeping both cabinets is the existing wiring is already laid out for it. Removing it doesn’t gain me anything I care about. Thanks for the info. I appreciate it!

    Last edited by slodat; 12-23-2019 at 01:03 PM.


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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Slodat, what made you change from the 15 hp Fuji drive to the 10 hp HY drive?



  7. #27
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Quote Originally Posted by fusion_crank View Post
    Slodat, what made you change from the 15 hp Fuji drive to the 10 hp HY drive?
    There's a lengthy thread about a suitable vfd for the spindle motor.

    The short version is, the HY drive is a temporary way to get the spindle turning for relatively low money. I plan to use it for a while and see how it goes. If it isn't up to the task, I will replace it with a better drive. The Fuji is not an option after all because the 4 pole spindle motor is at 8000 rpm at 267Hz. The Fuji doesn't work in sensorless vector mode to that high of frequency. So, I'm thinking the drive I will go with will be the Hitachi WJ200-150LF. Partially based on the recommendation of a member on here using that drive on the same mill/motor.

    I've also decided to go with DMM 1.3kW NEMA42 AC servos and DYN4 servo drives with Centroid Acorn instead of Allin1DC.



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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Thank you slodat. That's great information. I have a Haas Mini mill that had all the electronics removed before I bought it and this information may help me use the stock spindle motor. I had been considering changing out the 7.5 hp motor for a 2 hp motor since they are cheap and plentiful, and this is just going to be a hobby machine. I had thought I was looking at about $1500 for a single to 3 phase FVD with the power to handle a 7.5 hp motor. That's just too much for me.
    Please keep posting your progress. It gives me hope for my project.
    Mike



  9. #29
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    The Fuji drive won’t run the needed 267hz (full motor speed) in sensorless vector mode. But, the Hitachi WJ-200 will.

    I've deliberated on whether to go with Allin1DC and existing DC servos or DMM AC servos and Acorn. Ultimately I decided to buy the DMM AC servos. There are a few factors in this decision.
    • First was the extreme cost difference for the software unlocks for the servo controls (AllIn1DC is a servo control) vs. Acorn. I have read and been told by Centroid they intend to update this with their next software release, "sometime soon".
    • I am quite familiar with Acorn and I feel like I will be better served having the same control on both. At least for now. I can replace Acorn with Oak should I decide I need closed loop control. I already have an Acorn board on hand.
    • In the case of a component failure, I’m only buying one component, not an entire controller. AllIn1DC has the servo drives built into the board.
    • Cost. This system has a significantly lower cost.




  10. #30
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Most of the parts have arrived. Was able to get the control, servo drives and servos bench tested. All went well. Next step is blow this apart and start the build out. Since I know people love photos..

    (It’s bench testing. Not final work. I used chunks of wire I keep in a box for stuff like this. I know it’s a rats nest







    Had a bit of drama with one of the motor pulleys. Found a used one at ZPS. They have been awesome for info and parts.



  11. #31
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    Default Re: New to me Tree Journeyman 425

    Had some time to begin panel layout. I’m going to keep both cabinets. I know I could eliminate one. I really like the way it’s setup with the VFD and input power in one and control in the other. There’s tons of room, existing venting for the VFD heat sink, etc.

    What I’ve got thus far..







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