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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    We always coat them with some waylube if going to sit a while.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  2. #82
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    I had a friend that brought a machinist leveler today. We leveled the machine so it's ready for some action.



    I then spent some time designing a BT30 holder to be able to swap tools on my holders easy. When I made a post for it the program was 120kB. I managed to split the code to two files with 60kB each so I can run them but this will become a hassle. The design was stupid simple so this limit is going to limit my use alot. I need to edit the PMC ladder so I can use drip feed. Does anyone know my options on how to do this? What tools do I need to read out the UVProms -> change the ladder -> load the ladder onto new uvproms?
    FA
    NUC A02B-0098-C199


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1125-jpg  


  3. #83
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    It's slowly moving forwards these days. I made my first proper post of a BT30 tool holder that is designed to be clamped to the table for fixing/unfixing tools to the BT30 holders. It worked out ok but it required 10 programs to shrink down the code enough for it to fit the memory



    I finally got my Y axsis bearings to so I started to tear down the machine. Just like with the X axsis there was a lot of dirt inside the way covers and it was packed pretty bad around the bearing at the back. Not strange that this gave up. I cleaned all the cover. I only have a place outside to wash also and today with -8 degrees outside the water froze as I was washing the covers After washing it I heated them some inside before I cleaned it down with brake cleaner (isopropanol), set it in with 5-56 rust remover and let it stay infront of the fan that keeps room temp inside my cnc shop. Tomorrow I will treat the last parts with some layup oil I have before I assemble it again. I have done a test run and the Y axis is now as silent as X so this works! I also found a oil drain just below the Y linear rails, Y ballscrew and from the X axis tray leading to Y trays. These have been blocked for a long time so will try to clear them with some cleaner tomorrow. Since both X and Y has been this bad I think I will open Z axis waycovers just to clean it out when I'm at it.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1174-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1180-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1182-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1183-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-img_1184-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1207-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1208-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1211-jpg  



  4. #84
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Today was the kind of day I should have not gone to the workshop.. I started out with cleaning those blocked oil drains from Y axis linear rails. It was completely blocked so I figured it was a great idea to put some air pressure to it and blow. After some blowing + cleaner it suddenly released and I heard a "poff" sound going out at the rear.. I thought.. I went to the back of the machine and it was surprisingly clean around the return pipe. So I started looking for where it could have gone. Guess where I found it? ALL over the tray for Y axis ballscrew that I just cleaned out yesterday. So I had to tear off the Y axis cover again and clean it out one more time. This time the dirt was loose so it wasn't that bad but still annoying that I couldn't use my head before I did stupid stuff like that :P

    But this return system I don't fully understand. It has constant air connected to one of the ports. There is then 4x ports comming from the 2x linear Y axis rails, one from the bottom rear of the Y axis ballscrew tray and one going up to the Z column. The last port is led to a connector down at the coolant tray. This is not the oil lines comming from the oil pump. I tried to sketch this up with lines on the attachment. I can see straight through from the air connector to the line leading to Y ballscrew tray. How is this system supposed to work? If it should work as the mister principle I don't see how it can be connected like this because it looks like the air will just blow the easiest way up the hose comming from Y axis ballscrew tray. Anyone have a suggestion?



    I pulled the Z covers also and this wasn't bad at all compared to the others. I will clean it out before I put it back on but I was happy when I got it off and it was this "clean". Also going to take off the covers for the tool changer and inspect the belts while I'm cleaning this out.



    Since I feel that I deserved some goodies after all this diry work I was looking through some facebook sale sites here in Norway. I came across 2x Mahr dial indicators for a decent price. It looks like they where in good shape to so I acquired them. Since it came without a holder it was time to look some on ebay.. Found a Hörger & Gässler Magnet and holder with a Käfer 1/100 dial indicator that just looked way to sexy to pass up on. Won the auction today so now I just hope it's in good shape then I will measure the backlash one more time and see if these give better accuracy than my cheapo $15 dial.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-hg-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1220-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1221-jpg   Kira VTC 30-mahr1-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-mahr2-jpg   Kira VTC 30-oil-jpg  


  5. #85
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Can I get away with another picture bonanza? I'll have to split this into 3x posts since it won't allow me more than 8 pictures in one post.. And pictures is fun to look back at again when I read through my thread/blog in a while

    Here are some pictures from the machine as I took the covers off and looked over it. There was old oil down where the belt is and with the spindle. Opened just to see the condition of it and it didn't look to bad. I will measure runout today and see how it is. Might have to replace the BT30 holder at some point since it's worn inside.



    Since it's been -5 to -10 degrees outside it has taken some time to wash and clean the covers as good as I would like. I disassembled the waycover including wipers to get it good. Same recepie as the other times where I used degreaser + water for the worst, isopropanol + air to get moisture away and oil + blower heater before assembly again.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1229-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1232-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1233-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1237-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-img_1239-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1261-jpg  


  6. #86
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    And some pictures after light cleaning. I didn't do it to detailed on the Z axis since it wasn't to bad and it's a place where I prolly have to open at some point later for maintenance. Now I want to use the machine some


    Also cleaned the bottom of the machine so it's easier to clear chips with a vacuum.



    I knew one bearing was missing on the toolchanger and that many of the old ones where seized. I dissasembled 3 of the holders and redid the threads deeper into the metal so I could fit a new longer screw. The holders are in aluminum and the threads where stripped so it didn't hold the tool properly when rotating. The bearing is an extra safety when/if the spring can't hold the tool alone when it rotates. I replaced all 20 bearings to be on the safe side.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1251-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1253-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1272-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1273-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-img_1274-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1289-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1294-jpg  


  7. #87
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    On the bottom of the Z column there is a champer that way oil goes into. This area only have one exit through a oil drain pipe and this was clogged up real bad. It also had accumulated chips since this is where all that comes into the Z tower ends up. The hole is so small that I had no chance of getting my hands down there so in the end I poked up the hole from rear of the machine and drained out what I could. Then I used a tool with paper on it to take up as much chips I could before I plugged the whole, filled in 3liters of diesel and stirred things up with a brush. Drained off again, cleaned with isopropanol and sprayed layup oil on top. It's possible to spot the little drain hole in the rear. All my oil drains where clogged so this is a good maintenance point to check for all owners of this mill. When I visited the local hardware store to purchase plastic glass for one of the doors for the machine I also found this oil strain (it's originally for tea) that fit perfect. Oil runs through it but it will clog up with two much chips. Still way easier to clean than the sump down there.



    The oile return system (explained a few posts back) I'm a bit clueless on. I don't know if I should hook up the air line again. It will blow nasty stuff up to the Y ballscrew and it's not a good design. Might plug that connector and add a Y with 50-60 degrees "input" on the line going down to the coolant tray. That way it will get a mister effect instead of blowing stuff back up. I just hope I don't miss a important function off that blower. Maybe it is designed to blow oil up in the tray below Y axis screw to not contaminated the coolant and then you are supposed to clean out that tray often?


    And now for the scary part. For those that read the first pages I did a stupid thing trying to drill out this cover plate when servicing the X servo. I have no clue about what material it is but prolly something close to 316 (it's not magnetic) but I welded it with regular steel thread in my MIG welder and Mison 18 gas mix. Only thing I had access to at the moment.. I just hope it holds without rusting to bad. I will keep it oiled to see if that helps.


    I made a thread about upgrading my Fanuc control to get DNC and a more modern controller the other day. I got some good help there so now I've ordered a EEPROM reader/burner to take backup of the PMC EEPROMS and burn me a backup set. I will then modify the ladder to include G127.5 on either a parameter or a new switch so that I can drip feed the machine. If everything works out I will also swap the 0-Mate MC for a 0-MC 32bit controller but this is only after I see that I can get the ladder working.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1283-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1284-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1257-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1296-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-img_1303-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1305-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1309-jpg  


  8. #88
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    After I was almost done mounting all the covers again I forgot that I was supposed to check the break for Z axis.. So off with some covers to gain access again and open it for inspection. I didn't take things apart because it looked good. With the break disengaged I blew out some dust but that's all. Z axis drops some millimeters when I hit emergency/power down the machine so I just wanted to check it. From reading here on the forum I found out that it's a normal action. The newer fanuc controls has a possibility for having a delay before powering down the Z servo after emergency stop but on the OM-C it's not like that.



    So some details that was overlooked earlier. One of the side doors was missing the window so I replaced it with plastic glass. It's not going to withstand a part that comes flying but it will keep chips in. I'll look for something better later but this is what I had access to now.


    And then I did some runout testing of the spindle. It looks good from what I can tell. The shank on the Sandvik facemill is off by a lot but maybe it's not correct to measure on this part. If I measured up closer to the BT30 shank on the part before the mill get fixed to the BT30 holder it's spot on. Down at the mill there are 0.1-0.05mm off on the indexable cutters but they are worn so I will replace them before I use it more. When pusing the spindle head I can push it 0.01mm without it returning. Nothing to worry about I think but I'm not an expert. Please tell me if I do something wrong measuring this or read the result wrong.



    And today I was at the local hardware store and aquired a water filter tank that can hold 8 bar. I want to make a DIY "Fogbuster" from this and try milling without flood coolant in the start. My thoughts are to fill this with denatured alcohol or something similar, pressurize the whole thing and have a tube running from the bottom of the tank to a Chinese mister on the machine. Might have to make a DIY "Fogbuster" in the end but I'm going to see how this works first.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1311-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1314-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1316-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1332-jpg  



  9. #89
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    I have really been enjoying all the pictures and updates on your Kira resurrection. Thank you for sharing.



  10. #90
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Today I'm having fun trying to enable DNC in the ladder. I'm missing this option. I pulled the PMC chips and read them out with a generic eprom reader. I then sent the files to a nice fella here on this forum that converted the hex dumps into fanuc files so I could open them with FLADDER in dos. I found the lines where X002.0 (auto mode) was and used all the inputs from this line + the new X008.0 input to ebable dnc at G127.5. I've never edited fanuc ladder before so I got no clue if this is the proper way. I sent the files over again to the expert and maybe he will have a good laught at my attempt If this works I will test DNCing as soon as I get the files back and can burn me two new eproms. Fun times!




    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-ladderedit1-jpg   Kira VTC 30-ladderedit3-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1442-jpg  


  11. #91
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Had a "it ain't stupid if it works" moment with the chip today Had troubles deleting one of my chips since I'm lacking a eprom eraser. I read some research that was saying MAG welding had a lot of UVC beams. Used the numbers from that research report, the known number needed to clear the chip and added 20% to the time. This gave me 2 minutes of welding arch at 0.5 meters distance and it actually worked. Burned the chip now and it verifies ok. From what I've read about UVproms they don't take damage of beeing overexposed to UV light as long as they are not heated up and that is not the case at 0.5meter distance when it's -5 degrees celcius outside. Anyways this is just for testing, I'll burn it into new eproms if DNC works.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1445-jpg  


  12. #92
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    If I ever go to Mars, Im taking you with me.



  13. #93
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by generaldisarray View Post
    If I ever go to Mars, Im taking you with me.
    I would drive the Martians crazy picking things apart trying to understand their gadgets

    I test fitted the chip now, mocked up a switch on X8.0 input and the machine is DNCing from the computer like a boss. Notice the last line with G127.5 that I added in the program a few posts up here. I'm so happy now finally reaching this "milestone". Now the machine just got 1000% more useful to me being able to run unlimited lines of code. It's not as quick as new 5 axis mazaks but I think this will be perfect for my use. Now that this is working I'm also going to replace the Mate controller with a proper OM-C controller that can do macro b. This won't be until a few weeks ahead so until them it's time for some milling finaly. Going to make a post with some detailed milling today to see what the machine can do while DNCing. I expect it to stutter a lot with 3 axis work but this will improve with the quicker OM-C controler that's going in.




    Edit:
    And a short clip from running first DNC test. I just made another BT30 holder but I doubled many processes and made them longer than needed so got about 25minutes of milling over 16000 lines of code (approx 400kB). So nice to not have a limit anymore!


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1454-jpg  
    Last edited by m1n1m; 02-26-2018 at 07:08 PM.


  14. #94
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    I did something similar, but used a large air tool oiler, as it has the tube and a flowrate adjuster. I like olive oil in the micro fogger, as it doesnt smell, and leaves a nice shine to the machine

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Nice tip about the olive oil underthetire I'll follow up on that. I was thinking to use denatured alcohol but olive oil sounds both safer and nicer to work with. Btw you said you worked on these machines before. Do you remember how changing tools in/out from the toolchanger was? I've made myself a bar now to open and release the tools but it's berly opening the door enough so the tools have to be inserted with force/prying on the springs holding the "doors" of the toolchanger. It seems way to less elegant than it should be.

    I was a my local supplier today picking up 4meters of 100x30mm alu bar and 4 meters of 60x60mm. No proper projects yet but I need to start test machining in alu.


    Also got this zero tool from ebay. It screams cheap all the way but if it is repeating good I'm happy with that. Going to be testing it tomorrow morning zeroing in all my tools. Not quite sure how to do it with the haimer being longer than most tools and getting this easy to maintain so any tip here is a good tip.


    It's been way to long without internet in my mancave so I brused dust of a old radiolink 18dBi wifi antenna and changed the setup to run off my wlan in the house. The line speed says 54/54mbit but measuring it on speedtest sites gives me about 20/20mbit. It's giving me almost perfect remote desktop to my Fusion 360 computer and that's what matters the most for me. I can now do quick changes to cam directly from my cnc machine instead of having to go back/forth from the garage to the house for minor changes. This is going to be so much simpler to work with. Installed a old 24" monitor I had lying around also before starting on getting tools up on the wall. Tomorrow I will try to get a system for holding tools and equipment up on the walls so I can clean up the messy desk before it gets more out of hand.


    Got more parts for the DIY fogbuster. I need to make a nozzle before I can start to use it but it's getting closer. Still haven't decided 100% on running flood coolant vs fogbuster. Tempting to get proper chip clearance with coolant but there is so much more mess with all that coolant. Also not sure how a small room like mine without ventilation would handle it. Would prolly quickly become a biohazard zone smelling nasty and not good for my health.


    Does anyone have similar buttons? I don't have the keys for program editing and door interlock and I'm considering fitting regular push buttons for them. This switch is not the push-hold type so it prolly have a slightly different number when it's set to push on - push off (not auto return to zero like this is). It measures to 24x18mm with 15mm cutout diameter and it's made by Fuji.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1496-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1498-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1510-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1514-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-img_1515-jpg   Kira VTC 30-mikrotik-jpg  


  16. #96
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    I just have 2 things to say. 1. You are doing a fabulous job and I am sure that your efforts will be rewarded. 2. Be very careful using a cheap mist system with denatured alcohol in an un-ventilated room with a space heater.



  17. #97
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    The fuji switches are tougher to find than the eao? switches, i have part numbers at work. They are basically identical. You want momentary or push on push off?
    I remember a spoon looking tool to pry the little door open on one , maybe on the top? Been 20 years or more now..

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    I just posted a mister nozzle that I made to GrabCad. You can get it here. https://grabcad.com/library/mist-coolant-nozzle-1



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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by maxspongebob View Post
    I just have 2 things to say. 1. You are doing a fabulous job and I am sure that your efforts will be rewarded. 2. Be very careful using a cheap mist system with denatured alcohol in an un-ventilated room with a space heater.
    Thank you When you lay it out this way I feel stupid for even considering this option. I will do as underthetire suggested and run olive oil. I still have mixed feelings about running flood coolant. I want the surface finish but I'm not sure if I want to have this kind-of "toxic" fluid filling the air in my tiny shop with fumes that I breath in. I soon have to decide tho.. Flood coolant won't cost me more than the coolant and if I want misting I'm going with a fogbuster nozzle atleast on the unit I have built.

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    The fuji switches are tougher to find than the eao? switches, i have part numbers at work. They are basically identical. You want momentary or push on push off?
    I remember a spoon looking tool to pry the little door open on one , maybe on the top? Been 20 years or more now..

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    I'll search some more. Temp solution is a car switch I had lying around hooked up inside the cabinet. I'm not switching off DNC often anyways so it's not a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxspongebob View Post
    I just posted a mister nozzle that I made to GrabCad. You can get it here. https://grabcad.com/library/mist-coolant-nozzle-1
    Cool. I'll see if I can manage to make something similar. The rest of the mister is basically done. I need to replace the valve on the fluid line as it's leaking but other than that it did provide me with a mist at 0.5bar pressure.




    I was tired of that door interlock ruining things so I pulled the switch apart and removed some of the latches in the key system. Now there is only one left that I can unlock with a 3mm flat screwdriver and turn on/off. The door switches is a good thing I guess but there is no stop mechanism on the doors so I had to gently align the doors until I head two clicks from the switches and if I touched the doors while it was milling it could stop giving me an error. I mill with the doors closed but now the switch is turned off.


    Then I had to arrange and measure my tools. First thing up was cleaning them with some CRC and scotchbrite pads and they now look like new. Also replaced a 10 and a 12mm mill with new ones as they where pretty worn. I mocked up something quick to mount my BT30 holder onto. It's not final but I had to have it for fixing my endmills. Will make one in alulminium when I get the chance


    Then off to tool zeroing. I got the chinese tool presetter in the mail the other day and it actually repeats very good. The way I zero my tools it doesn't matter if it's 50 or 51mm so the only thing that is important is how it repeats. I zero the presetter to the edge of the presetter with a round bar over the top of the presetter. This way of zeroing it let me zero the haimer to the edge of the presetter. The way I zero is moving the spindle head down without a tool in it and input this as G54 zero to have a reference for the other tools. I then had to run a short program calling G54 again so it zeroed out the display. Now I started loading tools in and measuring each tool and the Z readout was then the offset from spindle without tool in. At the end I measured the haimer against the edge of the tool holder (same as zero on the dial) so I know the full distance of the haimer. Now everytime I zero Z with the haimer I just read off machine zero and add haimer offset to the G54-55-56-57 Z zero offset. I'm open to better ways of doing it but this was what my simple mind could figure out as a working solution. I made a short spreadsheet that I can use for inputing machine Z and getting out a calced Z height including haimer offset. The sheet is for measuring bores with the haimer and zeroing on a hole also so I just add stuff there as I need it. When I upgrade my unit I will try to figure out how to do this with macro b.


    shiny alu bars Looking forward to making some chips of these!


    Here is a short video showing milling with a tool change. Only sprayed some random multi lube onto the alu so no proper coolant hence the smoke


    And today a friend came over and wanted me to help him extend a hole from 12mm to 17mm. I made a short program with helical interpolation down a hole with 10k rpm, 2600mm/min, 325m/min surface speed and 0.125mm chip per tooth. The speed can be seen down in the video. The only problem was that the hole that was supposed to be 17mm came out as 16.5mm. I thought this was because I enabled 3axis movement and helical interpolation on a machine that didn't have these parameters enabled from factory but a wise man told me I was rocking at the machines phyiscal limits. Once I slowed down feed to 600mm/min on a finish pass (WAY to low chip load tho) the whole measured the correct diameter. I guess I have to learn more about these machine limits as I go.. Tested some pockets and various moves and the tolerances are good as far as I can tell now. I'm really in love with the machine after getting drip feed enabled as now I can work quick and easy with programs without that stupid low limit..



    I'm in contact with a guy on this forum that has upgraded his Mate control to a O-MC control and he's packing and shipping a OM-C control to me today. Hopefully within a few weeks I'll rip out my old mate 16bit and get in a 32bit OM-C. I think this 16bit is what's giving me a headache with enabling more memory as a 16bit CPU only can address as high as it can count (65k) when it comes to memory. a 32bit cpu won't give me this problem so I can run it fully loaded with memory (for saving macros and stuff). This is only my theory of my limited knowledge of cpu's but it did make sense when I figured out I had a 16bit cpu. The new control will hopefully make me able to DNC at 19200 with better surface speed.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_1521-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1522-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1529-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1531-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-img_1542-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1543-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1544-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_1555-jpg  



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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    I need a new face mill of some sort. Not going to spend crazy amounts if I don't need to. Is there any recommended flycutter or facemill that is light on the machine? I'm running it off a 16A circuit (should be 32A) so I can't put full 3.6kW load on the spindle without risking to trip the fuse. Tripping the fuse will for sure ruin the endmill/facemill since Z drops a couple of mm at power down.



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