X axis is off center

[shred]

Funny. I learned 'Z bottom of stock' in a "real" machine shop. They do it because raw stock is often not all that consistent in thickness when you are doing thousands of parts from multiple bars and you always know where the bottom is going to be every time; not so much for the top. You can also set up off soft jaws without even having the stock there at the machine and if somebody accidentally sets Z to top of stock, you just cut air until you figure it out. Maybe that's "wrong" in some people's books, but they've made many millions of dollars doing it that way...

IMO It's far more important to either be consistent in how you CAM parts, whatever that may be, or extremely attentive to documenting and verifying what you did every time if you ever go back to an old part file.

.

[mountaindew]

Your cam is no different than what any good shop would have

What ever suits you can do but in a real machine shop this would not fly, when you setup your first operation you usually machine all 5 faces , the second operation can be added to the same program or be a separate program which is more efficient than what you are doing

If you say so. Mac Your the expert !

I also have expert level cam skills and would have no problem setting up parts anyway you or any shop would want them setup. Using 1 file or hundreds of files. Using one offset or hundreds of offsets, using one tool or hundreds of tools, milling one side or dozens of sides. Making one part or hundreds at a time. On any high end type of machine made. On any high end cam software sold.
I also have expert level cad skills to compliment the cam skills with the ability to draw just about anything. Again using any high end cad software sold.

In short I can quickly adapt and learn any industry standard or job shop method. And always learning new skills, methods, and tricks from others.












.

[mactec54]

If you say so. Mac Your the expert !

I also have expert level cam skills and would have no problem setting up parts anyway you or any shop would want them setup. Using 1 file or hundreds of files. Using one offset or hundreds of offsets, using one tool or hundreds of tools, milling one side or dozens of sides. Making one part or hundreds at a time. On any high end type of machine made. On any high end cam software sold.
I also have expert level cad skills to compliment the cam skills with the ability to draw just about anything. Again using any high end cad software sold.

In short I can quickly adapt and learn any industry standard or job shop method. And always learning new skills, methods, and tricks from others..

No one was doubting what skill set you might have, those that post here don't have these skills, and there for your post is pointless, this does not help anyone but cause confusion

What you explained in your post would not help anyone the Zone is about helping not about you or what you can do

[mactec54]

Funny. I learned 'Z bottom of stock' in a "real" machine shop. They do it because raw stock is often not all that consistent in thickness when you are doing thousands of parts from multiple bars and you always know where the bottom is going to be every time; not so much for the top. You can also set up off soft jaws without even having the stock there at the machine and if somebody accidentally sets Z to top of stock, you just cut air until you figure it out. Maybe that's "wrong" in some people's books, but they've made many millions of dollars doing it that way...

IMO It's far more important to either be consistent in how you CAM parts, whatever that may be, or extremely attentive to documenting and verifying what you did every time if you ever go back to an old part file.

.

The stock is still in the same place no matter how the thickness varies this does not change the way it can be machined from the bottom up or top down it makes not difference, you are obvious not a time served machinist or you would know this

[popspipes]

I have one part that I use bottom zero, gives me correct part size as the stock varies. Most of my parts are top Zero though, there is a place for both.

[Kenny Duval]

I'm not in this argument. I use a fixed jaw location most of the time at the bottom of the stock. I do certainly get the argument for working from the top for ease of readability on the machine as the reduced likelihood of a crash. Is this a case where in most instances it's cheaper to just scrap the part if something goes wrong and you no longer have the top of the stock to use to pick back up your WCS point in a production environment. I assume stuff like this becomes far more important in environments where the same person is not always operating the machine so consistency in process takes on a different level of importance.

[cadcam]

No one was doubting what skill set you might have, those that post here don't have these skills, and there for your post is pointless, this does not help anyone but cause confusion

What you explained in your post would not help anyone the Zone is about helping not about you or what you can do

Mac, how things should be a normal is really your opinion for if they come from the top or bottom. I find shops that come from the bottom all over the place and states. some start that way and some use it on there second op when coming from raw stock or other reasons.

So stating that the rest do not have skills really!!. you do not know what these folks know or how long they have been doing this. Or even that the way they do things was how they were trained. I have had my share of apprentices and trained them my way. may not be everyone's standard but I speak of different ways besides mine.

I teach the same way in my Mastercam classes I show them the tools and go through projects and we talk about different ways to hols and attack the projects.

But enough how I work or train. you want help like I think you do. give advice you can even say really this is how I suggest you do it. but to basically call them dumb in this trade. not going to go here.

pleas all continue to share your know how and you opinions really helps all around.

[machinehop5]

...ask five different machinist how to make a 1-2-3 Block and you'll get 5 different answers. Setting Z from the Fixture with gage blocks would be my preferred way. Stock would be R Plane up to the programmer. One of the 5 machinist choice

[cadcam]

...ask five different machinist how to make a 1-2-3 Block and you'll get 5 different answers. Setting Z from the Fixture with gage blocks would be my preferred way. Stock would be R Plane up to the programmer. One of the 5 machinist choice

What you don't use paper. like I used to do in the early days and seen many do lol but you are correct if you don't have a Probe or a gauge setter then the best is to use a block I fully agree. this is my preferred way most of the time.

[mactec54]

What you don't use paper. like I used to do in the early days and seen many do lol but you are correct if you don't have a Probe or a gauge setter then the best is to use a block I fully agree. this is my preferred way most of the time.

And you say to use a block as a preferred method, is what you teach

Touching off to a Hardened Block or using gauge blocks can damages a cutter, there are hundreds that use this method and wonder why there cutters leave marks on the face if it is being used for face milling

A Plastic shim .007 to .010" thick, just cut some 1/2" wide pieces, should be used between the block and cutter to prevent any cutter damage, so you can now add this to your teaching

As machineshop5 said there is more than one way to do a setup and it is what is the most efficient way for the job being done

[metalmayhem]

Touching off to a Hardened Block or using gauge blocks can damages a cutter, there are hundreds that use this method and wonder why there cutters leave marks on the face if it is being used for face milling

if using common sense a guy travels the z below the block then raises it until the block can slide under the cutter . This will prevent damage to the tool vs bringing the cutter down till it contacts the block .
Personally I prefer dowel pins which which have much less contact surface and reduces interference

[mactec54]

I have one part that I use bottom zero, gives me correct part size as the stock varies. Most of my parts are top Zero though, there is a place for both.

Correct but both ways can work and achieve the same thing

The snip below had a .0002" thickness and parallel call out, where all done top down, it makes not difference at the end of the day what way you do it, to achieve tolerances like this you have to be able to change the Z axis offset on the fly because of the thermal heat in the spindle that is constantly changing

[mactec54]

if using common sense a guy travels the z below the block then raises it until the block can slide under the cutter . This will prevent damage to the tool vs bringing the cutter down till it contacts the block .
Personally I prefer dowel pins which which have much less contact surface and reduces interference

No matter how you do it, there is still metal to metal contact and some damage will happen to the cutter especially if your cutter is carbide, HSS is a little more forgiving

[metalmayhem]

No matter how you do it, there is still metal to metal contact and some damage will happen to the cutter especially if your cutter is carbide, HSS is a little more forgiving

been doing it a minimum 5 days a week for over 30 yrs , never been a problem

[cadcam]

And you say to use a block as a preferred method, is what you teach

Touching off to a Hardened Block or using gauge blocks can damages a cutter, there are hundreds that use this method and wonder why there cutters leave marks on the face if it is being used for face milling

A Plastic shim .007 to .010" thick, just cut some 1/2" wide pieces, should be used between the block and cutter to prevent any cutter damage, so you can now add this to your teaching

As machineshop5 said there is more than one way to do a setup and it is what is the most efficient way for the job being done

Really. so the next guy posts the way I do it. (if using common sense a guy travels the z below the block then raises it until the block can slide under the cutter . This will prevent damage to the tool vs bringing the cutter down till it contacts the block)
this is the best way from my means. when we teach at the collage one of the projects is to make a gauge setter to touch down to that has a dial gauge.

I did agree with the plastic as I may as well go back to paper. So I will not be implementing this in.

[mactec54]

Really. so the next guy posts the way I do it. (if using common sense a guy travels the z below the block then raises it until the block can slide under the cutter . This will prevent damage to the tool vs bringing the cutter down till it contacts the block)
this is the best way from my means. when we teach at the collage one of the projects is to make a gauge setter to touch down to that has a dial gauge.

I did agree with the plastic as I may as well go back to paper. So I will not be implementing this in.

With the Plastic shim you can use the same piece for years, ( Mylar sheet is best ) a piece of paper does not last very long and is not as forgiving

This thread was about having a problem with a part setup, not about you Tormach using Pathpilot have a good video on doing Offsets but I'm sure you will disagree with what they are doing also even though it is the industry standard methods used world wide, what they show in this video

[mactec54]

been doing it a minimum 5 days a week for over 30 yrs , never been a problem

And probably of those 30years you wasted about 5years of your life just with doing setups, may be more, probing is more accurate and save time materials and is affordable to everyone

[metalmayhem]

probing is more accurate and save time materials and is affordable to everyone

it would be far more accurate than a piece of plastic.

You seem to have a know it all way about you and become unreasonable and belittling when someone disagrees with you .
Hundreds of thousands if not millions of machinists use that method .
Seeing as you are so hellbent against that method I have to assume you've tried it and failed miserably , the key words I used was common sense . If a person doesn't have common sense and or proper motor skills then the block or pin method may not be the right method for them , at which a piece of plastic might be a pathetic alternative , or even a piece of rubber may suffice to certain skill levels

[mactec54]

it would be far more accurate than a piece of plastic.

You seem to have a know it all way about you and become unreasonable and belittling when someone disagrees with you .
Hundreds of thousands if not millions of machinists use that method .
Seeing as you are so hellbent against that method I have to assume you've tried it and failed miserably , the key words I used was common sense . If a person doesn't have common sense and or proper motor skills then the block or pin method may not be the right method for them , at which a piece of plastic might be a pathetic alternative , or even a piece of rubber may suffice to certain skill levels

I have not disagreed with any method anyone uses, so why the fuss

Fail at doing this you have to be kidding

If you think many people use your method today, you are mistaken, since probing systems have been available for more than 20 years, even most hobby users have them and use them, you are still stuck in your 30 year mentality going nowhere, keep rolling the dowel

[nitewatchman]

YAWN!!