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  1. #21
    Member Pugman1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    Tormach generally lists the full PathPilot controller with the PC and screen included, which ends up costing a fair bit, because, well, it includes a PC and a screen :-)

    If you already have a PC to run Mach 3 on, the upgrade to PathPilot should be $25 for the installation USB stick, plus whatever an appropriate Mesa interface costs (which is in the $79 range.)

    If you want a project to build something custom that nobody else has, and you integrated from scratch, then by all means, go forward with something else! If you want a mill that makes parts with the minimum outlay of cost and tears, it seems like PathPilot would be the way to go. But only you can make the call about what's right for you!
    Hi, please explain how the Mesa interface works, thanks



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugman1 View Post
    I find the information tormach give on some of their upgrades a bit short in detail. Ok I can buy a card to go in my pc with the pathpilot on a usb stick. But it’s still old technology using a printer cable from the dark age. Here in the uk old computers are failing and not worth buying. I was looking for and hoping to find information on getting the mill to run using more upto date tech. Please remember I am in the uk, so add 20% to all prices then add on handling charges and anything else they can think of. Makes it expensive
    Using a 7I92H would give you a PathPilot supported, Ethernet connected device that will connect directly to the Tormachs
    breakout with a short 26 pin flat cable.



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    I am certainly not an export but... Essentially PP tells the Mesa card the desired step rate and the number of steps and it outputs the steps independently of the computer. This means that interruptions to service the UI, display a web page or whatever doesn't affect the stepping. With Mach3 and a parallel port the computer must do everything.



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugman1 View Post
    I find the information tormach give on some of their upgrades a bit short in detail. Ok I can buy a card to go in my pc with the pathpilot on a usb stick. But it’s still old technology using a printer cable from the dark age. Here in the uk old computers are failing and not worth buying. I was looking for and hoping to find information on getting the mill to run using more upto date tech. Please remember I am in the uk, so add 20% to all prices then add on handling charges and anything else they can think of. Makes it expensive

    Right.
    Why do people get so het up on 'it's old technology' with parallel?. It works.
    It's basically a 3 axis mill. All it needs is the amount of I/O that a standard lpt port gives you.
    So. You're sticking with Mach3?.
    You're worried about the onboard port failing?.
    Just get a pci parallel port card and shove it into a micro atx pc motherboard and connect lpt cable to the Mill.
    Install Windows XP / 7, 32bit os, Mach3, check port/pin no's, done!.
    When/if that card fails, shove another one in.
    Don't know about reliability but if they weren't reliable, they wouldn't exist, right?.
    Between £20 - £50.

    Basically a parallel breakout so pc & mach still does the work (pci express). (U.K.)
    https://www.lindy.co.uk/components-t...SABEgLWX_D_BwE
    https://uk.farnell.com/startech/pex1...oss_price=true
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASHATA-Expr...7VHCQ9VN&psc=1

    (U.K.) (pci).
    https://www.lindy.co.uk/components-t...SABEgKFMfD_BwE
    https://business.currys.co.uk/catalo...E&gclsrc=aw.ds



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    NO! The Mesa card is far more than a simple dumb parallel printer port card!



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    NO! The Mesa card is far more than a simple dumb parallel printer port card!

    Yeah I know I edited post.
    It's just a parallel breakout. Not a controller per say.
    Mach and the pc still does all the work.



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Right.
    Why do people get so het up on 'it's old technology' with parallel?. It works.
    It's basically a 3 axis mill. All it needs is the amount of I/O that a standard lpt port gives you.
    So. You're sticking with Mach3?.
    You're worried about the onboard port failing?.
    Just get a pci parallel port card and shove it into a micro atx pc motherboard and connect lpt cable to the Mill.
    Install Windows XP / 7, 32bit os, Mach3, check port/pin no's, done!.
    When/if that card fails, shove another one in.
    Don't know about reliability but if they weren't reliable, they wouldn't exist, right?.
    Between £20 - £50.

    Basically a parallel breakout so pc & mach still does the work (pci express). (U.K.)
    https://www.lindy.co.uk/components-t...SABEgLWX_D_BwE
    https://uk.farnell.com/startech/pex1...oss_price=true
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASHATA-Expr...7VHCQ9VN&psc=1

    (U.K.) (pci).
    https://www.lindy.co.uk/components-t...SABEgKFMfD_BwE
    https://business.currys.co.uk/catalo...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
    Because it breaks, I have just had two hard drives fail. One of which held my copy of solidworks .Have you seen the price they now want for solidworks. Old computers only excess because newer ones here in the uk are more cloud based systems. But it’s getting harder to trust old technology. I would like to use a more upto date pc too run my software. That’s me, it’s a bit like owning a car, there comes a time it is just not going to make that long trip know matter what money you have put into it.



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugman1 View Post
    Because it breaks, I have just had two hard drives fail. One of which held my copy of solidworks .Have you seen the price they now want for solidworks. Old computers only excess because newer ones here in the uk are more cloud based systems. But it’s getting harder to trust old technology. I would like to use a more upto date pc too run my software. That’s me, it’s a bit like owning a car, there comes a time it is just not going to make that long trip know matter what money you have put into it.
    That's bad fortune that is. Did you not make an iso image of the drive after everything was installed?.
    All my pc's are built and not 'off the shelf' and I tend to make a habit of changing drives every 5 years or so. Plus the odd upgrade here and there.
    Just had to change a perfect motherboard (age 2008) all because it wouldn't read a new drive
    (At least I can read 3tb+ now I suppose).

    You have to watch these new ones, Advert is all singing / dancing, get it home, realise it can't store bugger all!.
    'Cloud based' is all about forcing you into subscriptions. All a con tbf. Plus the u.k. infrastructure sucks.

    I'm not totally 'old skool'. I have bought a new i7 w10 laptop for when I get uccnc + uc300 wired in and set up.
    Also I use handbrake a lot and my most reliable codecs will only work under win7, perfect every time. Under win10 it was seriously hit and miss.

    Anywhoo. A simple parallel pci card is the simple cheap route for the op's worry afaic.

    Last edited by dazp1976; 07-28-2021 at 11:35 AM.


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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    If you don't trust cloud backups, there's always big local drives.
    While spinning disks used to be cheaper, SSDs have come down so much in price, and don't wear out by spinning, I've moved all my storage over.
    $360 for 4 TB of quality SSD storage? Don't mind if I do :-) https://amzn.to/3BXMqED
    (Yes, if bulk storage is the ONLY thing you're doing, and you're not worried about earthquakes while the spindle is running, you can save another hundred or two by sticking with the spinny rust, but ... waiting for backups/storage has a cost too!)



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    the problem with hard drives is knowing when to clone them before they are cooked

    In regards to old technology , your wanting to run mach 3 on new tech , except as much as I like mach I have to admit that it is an old tech software . You can add plugins to replace the pp but thats a bandage to an old unsupported software . You can try the uc100 but don't be surprised if your machine stops in the middle of a run and shows an error message , which will force you to completely restart mach and start all over . Like I said previously I have 4 sitting in a drawer and I've had to deal with their quirks until I got fed up and pulled them

    I live in Canada and I can completely empathize with the taxes because most of my money goes to one tax or another other , but a guys got to do what he's got to do . If you want the most up to date control for your tormach then pathpilot and a mesa card is your best choice , and whatever pc , hard drive , etc can be your choice , but keep in mind that pathpilot/linuxcnc plays better on some pc's than others



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    If you run a NAS with a redundant array, you should never get bit with failed HDD. Took 10 years for a drive in my Synology to fail and it was hot swappable.

    But back on topic. As said there was a reason why Tormach went to Linuxcnc. Don't fight it. Just pay the money and upgrade your machine with PathPilot. Anything else will be a compromise and devalue your asset. Unlike Mach, Linuxcnc is still actively developed. So is PathPilot.

    AS far as PC's playing, that is not that much of an issue. Some hardware may not have driver support in Linux but the real thing is to make sure that the PC you choose does not have excessive latency. There are tests provided you can do to check that.

    BTW, I know another UC100 that went in a drawer today as a newcomer migrates his Novakon to Linuxcnc... because of unreliability with mach

    Rod Webster
    www.vmn.com.au


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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by dazp1976 View Post
    Right.
    Why do people get so het up on 'it's old technology' with parallel?. It works.
    It's basically a 3 axis mill. All it needs is the amount of I/O that a standard lpt port gives you.
    So. You're sticking with Mach3?.
    You're worried about the onboard port failing?.
    Just get a pci parallel port card and shove it into a micro atx pc motherboard and connect lpt cable to the Mill.
    Install Windows XP / 7, 32bit os, Mach3, check port/pin no's, done!.
    When/if that card fails, shove another one in.
    Don't know about reliability but if they weren't reliable, they wouldn't exist, right?.
    Between £20 - £50.

    Basically a parallel breakout so pc & mach still does the work (pci express). (U.K.)
    https://www.lindy.co.uk/components-t...SABEgLWX_D_BwE
    https://uk.farnell.com/startech/pex1...oss_price=true
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASHATA-Expr...7VHCQ9VN&psc=1

    (U.K.) (pci).
    https://www.lindy.co.uk/components-t...SABEgKFMfD_BwE
    https://business.currys.co.uk/catalo...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
    The problem is as from the beginning the Parallel port is part of his Tormach control and he can not change that part very easy

    If he is sticking with Mach3 then as I said from the beginning the UC100 will do everything he needs and can use any computer he likes

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by Pugman1 View Post
    Because it breaks, I have just had two hard drives fail. One of which held my copy of solidworks .Have you seen the price they now want for solidworks. Old computers only excess because newer ones here in the uk are more cloud based systems. But it’s getting harder to trust old technology. I would like to use a more upto date pc too run my software. That’s me, it’s a bit like owning a car, there comes a time it is just not going to make that long trip know matter what money you have put into it.
    You have not lost the software just the operating system most likely failed to connect with the drive

    If you have another computer, that can use another drive in it, you can connect the drive as a slave and you will be able to get to your software or anything on the drive that you need or want

    This is money to the computer Tec's, that most don't know, they do it the hard way with software which also fails a lot, but it is as simple as going in the back door, it will just show up as a drive and you can open anything on it you want

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    If you don't trust cloud backups, there's always big local drives.
    While spinning disks used to be cheaper, SSDs have come down so much in price, and don't wear out by spinning, I've moved all my storage over.
    $360 for 4 TB of quality SSD storage? Don't mind if I do :-) https://amzn.to/3BXMqED
    (Yes, if bulk storage is the ONLY thing you're doing, and you're not worried about earthquakes while the spindle is running, you can save another hundred or two by sticking with the spinny rust, but ... waiting for backups/storage has a cost too!)
    Yes a SSD does not wear out because of spinning but it has a short life in comparison it only has write / rewrite a few times and then it is done, there average life is between 2 years to 5years depending on the use some are said to be able to last up to 10 years that has not happened yet so I would not count on it

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    The problem is as from the beginning the Parallel port is part of his Tormach control and he can not change that part very easy

    If he is sticking with Mach3 then as I said from the beginning the UC100 will do everything he needs and can use any computer he likes
    The UC100 is $199
    The Tormach upgrade is $225 and you get a supported motion controller.

    I know what I'd buy.

    Rod Webster
    www.vmn.com.au


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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Or perhaps $185 depending on the appropriate Mesa card.



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by rodw View Post
    The UC100 is $199
    The Tormach upgrade is $225 and you get a supported motion controller.

    I know what I'd buy.
    How did you figure it was $199 it has never been anywhere near that cost

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    Or perhaps $185 depending on the appropriate Mesa card.

    last couple 5i25 cards I bought direct from mesa were only $89.99 each .



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    Default Re: Tormach pcnc 1100 running off spruce software

    With all the prices being thrown out there I think I would just buy a uc400eth.
    Get an IDC26 to DB25 cable for it to go into the pp of machine from port #1. Done!.

    Then get another cable and a cheap £5 bob for port #2 and play around with a 4th axis and building a tool changer.

    Should be way less than $200 for a uc400+ cables.


    (Or you could play hit or miss with uc100).
    Or fork for pathpilot, mesa, and linux.



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