PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise


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    Member 6061billet's Avatar
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    Default PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    I've had my PCNC 1100 for about a decade now and I've always clamped directly to the bed or used a 3" screwless grinding vise.
    I've hit the point where I really need softjaws so I'm considering a Shars 550V. The 5" vise seems like a perfect fit but all of the 1100's that I see in youtube videos are running 6" vises. Some are running two 6" vises.
    Price isn't a concern for me but handling the weight while leaning into the enclosure and the additional wear on the machine are. It seems like the 6" causes a cantilevered load.

    Reasons that I'm against a 6" vise
    * Only a bit more opening capacity 9" vs 7" on the 550V
    * Much heavier when loading onto the table. Almost twice as much.
    * More wear on the ways from the weight
    * Has to be centered on the table to stick through the cutout on the guards
    * Loose some Y travel
    * A lot of the vise hangs off the table. I would think the cantilevered load would be a problem.
    * Tormach doesn't sell a 6" vise. Only 5" so they must consider 5" the limit.

    Other than capacity is there anything else that I loose with a 5" vise? Any machine accessories that aren't compatible with a 6" vise?
    The only things that I can think of are:
    * Less choices in aftermarket soft jaws.
    * Less options in specialty hard jaws

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    Member mountaindew's Avatar
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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    I use Tormach 5" machinist vise. Perfect fit for Tormach mill, but your kind of isolated as most jaws and vise accessories are for 6" models. Some work on 5's but of course stick out.
    I like how Tormach unit mounts with keys and no need to tram in line. larger vises will work fine they just have the issues you mentioned.
    As for weight, I would not worry about that at all! My Tormach 4th axis weighs 185 lbs and mill performs better when its in place.
    The added weight dampens the machine a little more. Not much but when you know the machine well you notice the difference.
    Main thing with a good vise is for it to hold things flat! No jaw lift! My Tormach unit requires regular cleaning and careful adjustment to keep it accurate.
    Weight of 5" vise is about 75lbs and at limit for me to lift. I use a 400 lb max ceiling mount HF winch on a trolley to move vise and 4th axis on and off mill table. "no full enclosure" If I had full enclosure a "C" lift arm would be used.
    The trolley winches runs entire length of shop on ceiling in both bays and can be used to move and lift anything less then 400 lbs. Very nice to have imho when you have limited strength and a real back saver.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    I used a 4" vise for a year or so then went to a 6" shars 660U, that one has been on the machine thereafter. I am considering a second one as all I machine fits in the vise or I can make some provision for it. I never machine on the table as I started out with Mach 3 and that in my case anyway, had a mind of its own every so often and I didnt want to cut into the table in one of its wild moments. My vise weighs 82 pounds and is a bit of a problem to remove, but I never remove it so once and done, just my personal preference.....

    mike sr


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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    I have been using the Tormach 5" vise for over 10 years onmy 1100. I don't have a full enclosure. The weight is about the limit for regular on/off on the machine for me. I don't use the 8" rotary table nearly as much, but that is a real chore to get on the table while trying not to ding the table or break a bone. I think the 5" is a great size for the 1100 for almost everything I do.

    I haven't had any issues with soft or hard jaws for it. I have jaws from Tormach as well as Monster Jaws. I have been considering a 4" CNC vise as well, to be a little lighter, and will work for many things I do. The length of the 5" is good, too, for my machine, so the chip guard clears it.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    I used the Tormach 5" on an 1100 for a long time, and it was a very good fit. I also used some Kurt 6" vises, and while they fit, they were bulkier to put on and had longer overhangs which might cause accidents if you mount it in the rear slot and jog it all the way into the Z ways.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    As mentioned above I have a 5" machinist vise.
    Im looking for a set of talon jaws that fit it. Tormach and others show jaw sets for 4"-6" but no 5"
    Looking at drawing they dont appear to fit a 5" machinist vise.
    Is my only choice to make my own jaws and mount some talon grips to them?
    Thanks for any insight!



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Years ago I milled some aluminum soft jaws to mount Talon grips. They aren't as long wearing as hardened steel jaws but they are easy to make, inexpensive and cutting into the jaw doesn't destroy the cutter. All dimensions are on the Mitee-Bite website.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    A lot of us use 6" CNC style vises on the 1100. I'd guess, based on a decade of comments, that the 6" is vastly more popular than the 5" -opinion, but there it is. A 6" vise can hold up to about 12-14" parts by moving jaws around. Much bigger work envelope than the 5. That "other than capacity" loss is a really big deal in my view.

    One thing to think about. Conventional practice is to mount the vise across the table (that is, sticking out toward the operator). I mount mine parallel to the table X axis - that is, the opening is perpendicular to the X axis. This eliminates many of your issues, particularly the loss of Y travel. I've found that parallel mounting is very handy, but it does require some adjustment in one's thinking- depending on how many years one has used 'the other way'. Incidentally- get the reverse style, operated from the fixed jaw end, and put the fixed jaw to the left of the table.

    My vise weighs 82 lb. The stated load for the 1100 is around 500 lb. I wouldn't worry much about wear.

    I really recommend a 6" CNC style vise.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    Years ago I milled some aluminum soft jaws to mount Talon grips. They aren't as long wearing as hardened steel jaws but they are easy to make, inexpensive and cutting into the jaw doesn't destroy the cutter. All dimensions are on the Mitee-Bite website.
    Amen! On all counts!



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    Years ago I milled some aluminum soft jaws to mount Talon grips. They aren't as long wearing as hardened steel jaws but they are easy to make, inexpensive and cutting into the jaw doesn't destroy the cutter. All dimensions are on the Mitee-Bite website.
    Was wanting both to be honest! Hard steel set for everyday long term use, and a set of soft jaws with talons.
    Also looking at a 2nd machinist vise like the one I have. Set both up with new jaws and be in the club

    Anyway, Thanks for your insight!
    Will need to model up some custom jaw sets to use.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    As mentioned above I have a 5" machinist vise.
    Im looking for a set of talon jaws that fit it. Tormach and others show jaw sets for 4"-6" but no 5"
    Looking at drawing they dont appear to fit a 5" machinist vise.
    Is my only choice to make my own jaws and mount some talon grips to them?
    Thanks for any insight!
    Carve Smart makes a set of 6" wide jaws that fit the 5" Tormach (Anglok type) vise and that take the the Talon Grips. Would those work for you? They also take the aluminum soft jaw extrusions if that is of interest to you.

    https://tormach.com/carvesmart-maste...set-37270.html



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    Carve Smart makes a set of 6" wide jaws that fit the 5" Tormach (Anglok type) vise and that take the the Talon Grips. Would those work for you? They also take the aluminum soft jaw extrusions if that is of interest to you.

    https://tormach.com/carvesmart-maste...set-37270.html
    I was thinking same thing. This looks to be about the only solution.
    Only drawback is less overall jaw capacity by thickness of carve smart jaw holders.
    On plus side is quick change jaws of all types.
    Wanting a paired vise setup! This could run into some real money before I get them bolted down and in use.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    I'd love the CarveSmart system but I'm a cheapskate. I use a mini-impact wrench with 1/4-inch drive bought on 1/2-price sale (https://www.princessauto.com/en/1-4-...t/PA0008913584) plus https://www.amazon.ca/GearWrench-811.../dp/B0186N7B8Q This allows me to quickly change the jaws on my 4-inch Kurt.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    ... but I'm a cheapskate.
    Me too! My Talon Grips are unfortunately still in the drawer, the well known solution waiting for a problem scenario (I have a LOT of solutions like that!). What put me off most was actually the height of the jaws. When I fist looked at them I got the impression the CarveSmart Jaws were significantly higher than the jaws on a (my) 5" Vises. The jaws would therefore tend to lean outwards as the vise is tightened. This wouldn't be a great issue for the typical Talon Grip jobs but I wouldn't want this to happen when using soft jaws. With soft jaws I like to "try" to keep the pressure at or below the top level of the fixed/moving jaws. Perhaps CarveSmart have since introduced some lower versions?
    Step



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    I have 2 5 inch Tormach CNC vises that I’m not using any more. I have 20 sets of Monster Jaw soft jaws that I’m probably not going to use.

    I would take $550.00 plus the ride for both vises and the soft jaws.

    If you’re interested, my email is steveseebold@icloud.com

    I also have a 2011 Tormach PCNC 1100 that’s been sitting since June 2019 that my wife is ragging on me to get rid of.

    My machine is equipped with Power Draw Bar, Foot Pedal, auto oiler, 4 each 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 and 1/2 inch set screw tool holders, and 6 each ER16 and ER 20 collet holders and a butt load of ER 16 and ER 20 collets.

    I also have a 9X20 lathe that’s brand new and a Harbor Freight conventional mill.

    I would consider $8,500.00 for all of it or I would consider a trade for an older PCNC 440 that’s still running the Mach III operating system.

    The package deal includes my PCNC 1100, 2 5 inch Tormach CNC vises, and all the accessories that I mentioned above.

    I can be reached at steveseebold@icloud.com or at 714-420-2453.

    Last edited by Steve Seebold; 12-05-2020 at 02:40 PM.
    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    I was thinking same thing. This looks to be about the only solution.
    Only drawback is less overall jaw capacity by thickness of carve smart jaw holders.
    On plus side is quick change jaws of all types.
    Wanting a paired vise setup! This could run into some real money before I get them bolted down and in use.
    Yes, a paired setup would get expensive in a hurry. If you have money to burn, why not get a pair of Orange vises? Those have provision for the the Talon grips built in.

    Also, you can mount the Carve Smart jaws to the outsides of the jaw plates if you don't need to machine beneath the work piece floor by much.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    Yes, a paired setup would get expensive in a hurry. If you have money to burn, why not get a pair of Orange vises? Those have provision for the the Talon grips built in.

    Also, you can mount the Carve Smart jaws to the outsides of the jaw plates if you don't need to machine beneath the work piece floor by much.
    Wanted to just add one vise to make a pair not 2 new ones. If new, then as you suggest, I would look at different size, brand and even style. Cost has pretty much pulled me back to earth so no changes for now!
    I wanted some steel talon type grip jaws mostly to reduce the waste when milling off 2nd side of parts. Also not having to mess with parallels and cleaning vise so much between parts. In short looking for ease of use, reduce waste and cut down on steps in the process. Then it will be used all the time and not a solution waiting for a problem as t-step mentions.



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Thanks for the input everyone. I was really dead set on a Shars 550V 5" vise for $295 but I didn't hear any strong reasons not to go with a 6". The Shars 690V seemed a lot bulkier and I really didn't care for it. Then I noticed that Shars has a more expensive 6" vise, the 690X. I guess it's a clone of the newer Kurt HD690 since it uses four bolts to hold down the rear jaw. The 690X opens a full 9 inches but at 70lbs is smaller and lighter than a typical 6" vise. Shars provides cad models so I printed off some scale templates to see how they would fit. As expected the 690V is too long and sticks out past the chip tray. Both the 550V and 690X clear the chip tray and plexiglass shield. I thought that I was going to have problems reaching the fixed jaw but all three provided plenty of clearance. I forgot that the table and spindel are reversed. On all three I can get the spindle overtop of the fixed jaw by bringing the table all the way toward the operator. It's the reach towards the moving jaw of vise that we run out of when the table is all the way to the column. So I'm really not giving up any travel with any of the three. In the pictures the table is moved almost all the way to the column. Or at least as close as I ever use it since I added an additional rubber way cover.


    The deciding factor was that the 690X is normally $420 but with a black friday sale I was able to order one for $320. It's going to be my Christmas gift from the wife and kids so I have to wait another two weeks before I'll have it on the mill.
    In the mean time, here are a few pictures of the templates and how they fit on an old PCNC1100 Series 2.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PCNC1100  considering a 5" vise-20201206_182559691-jpg   PCNC1100  considering a 5" vise-20201206_182703100-jpg   PCNC1100  considering a 5" vise-20201206_182731827-jpg   PCNC1100  considering a 5" vise-20201206_182814874-jpg  

    PCNC1100  considering a 5" vise-20201206_183147219-jpg  


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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    Wanted to just add one vise to make a pair not 2 new ones. If new, then as you suggest, I would look at different size, brand and even style. Cost has pretty much pulled me back to earth so no changes for now!
    I wanted some steel talon type grip jaws mostly to reduce the waste when milling off 2nd side of parts. Also not having to mess with parallels and cleaning vise so much between parts. In short looking for ease of use, reduce waste and cut down on steps in the process. Then it will be used all the time and not a solution waiting for a problem as t-step mentions.
    Now Tormach does not even show or sell the 5" machinist vise . Was ready to buy a matching one and now they are no longer listed. "problem solved i guess"
    I watch most all the Haas videos and tips. Recently they were showing a self centering style vises and I have taken a fancy to that solution. So I have new ideas



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    Default Re: PCNC1100 considering a 5" vise

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    Now Tormach does not even show or sell the 5" machinist vise . Was ready to buy a matching one and now they are no longer listed. "problem solved i guess"
    I watch most all the Haas videos and tips. Recently they were showing a self centering style vises and I have taken a fancy to that solution. So I have new ideas
    If you are trying to buy another of the Tormach Ang-lok-style 5" vises see if you can find a distributor for the Conquest Magnum 5" vises as I think that's the company that made them for Tormach. They may be out of the vise business now, though, as their site shows the business apparently moving in a different direction. If they are no longer being made that may explain why they are no longer on Tormach's web site.

    This Amazon ad has 6" Magnum Conquest vises for sale.

    https://www.amazon.com/CONQUEST-MAGN...tionAndDetails

    Clicking through from the "Available from these sellers." eventually takes link takes to this page, with contact info for the seller.

    https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=...A1FA3OHCOXGPED

    If Conquest is out of the vise making business, that contact may have access to whatever stock remains. Maybe you can find a 5" "Tormach" vise there at a good price.



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