Video What ToolSetter do you use?


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    Default What ToolSetter do you use?

    Hi Guys. I thought a thread on "which toolsetter" would be interesting.

    I am keen to hear your thoughts. I start the ball rolling with this video.

    Later I will post part 2 with a review of two types.

    Cheers Cliff





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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Hi Cliff,

    Another great video, I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say thank you again.

    In the video you asked for input on the use of the electronic tool setters. One feature with them that I believe is very useful is the ability to set tool length inside of a gcode program..Using G37 and G37.1, which were added in v2.4.0, I think.

    I find this useful for my add on high speed spindle, which has an ER collet chuck, so no TTS tooling. I can load a tool, check and set the length in gcode, and if necessary stop the spindle for a manual tool change, then have the length checked and set when the program resumes.

    Terry



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    Member Kenny Duval's Avatar
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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    I use one I made that was a fun mill project.





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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Quote Originally Posted by MFchief View Post
    Hi Cliff,

    Another great video, I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say thank you again.

    In the video you asked for input on the use of the electronic tool setters. One feature with them that I believe is very useful is the ability to set tool length inside of a gcode program..Using G37 and G37.1, which were added in v2.4.0, I think.

    I find this useful for my add on high speed spindle, which has an ER collet chuck, so no TTS tooling. I can load a tool, check and set the length in gcode, and if necessary stop the spindle for a manual tool change, then have the length checked and set when the program resumes.

    Terry
    Thanks Terry. Thats interesting. I had not thought about variable position tool holders. Can you each time the tool is installed get some code to take it over to your ETS and resets the tool length all automatically at that point in the programe ? Or is that too risky and you need to oversee? Of course you are installing the tool manually so you are there anyway. Cliff



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Thanks Kenny. That is a better design than my little blue mechanical setter in the video because yours only has the one plunger and so does not have an accuracy losing link. I have ordered a short indicator and plan to make one too. Cheers Cliff



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Thanks Kenny. That is a better design than my little blue mechanical setter in the video because yours only has the one plunger and so does not have an accuracy losing link. I have ordered a short indicator and plan to make one too. Cheers Cliff
    I had that as a spare on hand. When I bought the new machine my touch probe and touch plate went away with the previous mill. Touching off on a block was just too slow and painful. The only problem I had was I had to pop the needle off and move it to get 0 at the 12 O'clock position.

    Note to anyone making one...put a towel over the top of the indicator so you don't have to spend 20 minutes looking the flying indicator needle like I did.

    I had watched the video earlier today and had not really given it much thought. I am always with in .01 to .02mm when I do a sanity check on the tools. I always check them all when I have swapped out some of them just to keep my Mr. Wizard mistakes to minimum.

    I just got used to measuring everything on the machine when I had the probe and touch plate and I really liked it. My probe was the master and everything offset from that. I also however used that facility to measure tools in process so even the stuff that was in repeatable TTS holders go measured as part of the tool change.

    Right now I use my Tschorn as my master tool and zero it on the top surface of the tool settter. That's what makes sense to my little pea brian at the moment. If I ever get to using more than one machine and moving tools between them I might have to reconsider that approach.

    Last edited by Kenny Duval; 06-16-2020 at 06:54 PM.


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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Hi Cliff,

    Yes you can use G37.1 to place the aux spindle over the ETS. You have to use offsets with G10, but you can do it. Then you program the moves for each tool as required.

    It's covered in the Programming g code section of the 1100MX manual, but it works with older machines such as my 1100 S2.

    Of course, nothing's perfect, I don't know of a way to use both spindles in the same program, it's regular or aux not both. Maybe one of the smart guys can figure out a way to do both?

    Terry



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    The offsets table contains both Z and X/Y offsets (no nice UI for the X/Y offsets though). Just setup X/Y for any tool that is used in your auxiliary spindle using G10 L10. Magic!



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Good video as always Cliff
    You had my attention when showing the blue colored mechanical tool setter. I have looked at those in pictures and always wondered how you zeroed them.
    Most the time I use old normal offline surface plate measurement of TTS tool offsets combined with Electronic or Hamier probe for xyz machine offsets on mill.
    The 24r Router I use an ETS to measure and set all collet held tools heights combined with Electronic probe, laser, or tool to set xyz machine offsets. In addition an ETS can also be used to set machine offset z by moving it to top of material and touching off tool and subtracting ETS height. The Sprutcam post Tormach provided for the 24r generates the code commands to automate the entire process. I just run program, change tools in collets and press buttons. IMHO much like a PDB is required on the mill, an ETS is required for a collet tool held system like routers or high speed spindles. Without one every tool change would require manual touch off and set of tool heights. This would make accuracy and repeatability questionable not to mention driving a user nuts changing tools in complex programs.

    Foot note: Mill or router if I chase accuracy in part results its almost always on the z axis

    I asked this question before. What is the standard for measuring taper tool holders, surface plate/ height guage, ETS, laser or other?



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Thanks Kstrauss, I should have know you would know the answer!
    Terry



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Interesting point about TTS holders not holding dimension after being clamped via the drawbar. I have been measuring mine in the spindle via a height gauge and entering the number in the tool table. The plan is to switch to off machine measuring via a surface plate and the same height gauge, but now I'm having second thoughts about that. The issue I have is that my G0704 table isn't all that flat, maybe .003" off across it's length. I always try to park the table in the same spot for measuring, but with just moving the gauge around, perhaps not getting perfect repeatability, I may be getting more variation than I would with the surface plate. I also fight with cleaning the table, it has to be done every time I measure on the machine and there's the potential for error there as well. I guess I am going to have to do some tests, or switch to a touch off gauge. I used to do a probe routine to a fixed electronic tool height setter with Mach 3 that would write the TLO to the tool table, but now that I've switched to UCCNC that option has gone away. Machining... every time I start to feel like I've got it mostly under control I learn new things that I am not doing correctly,



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    I always use the TTS-JT1 drill arbor as my tool 0.This avoids having to remove the collet to set zero and takes care of compression errors etc.It also allows me to sit my manual tool setter on top of a vise or anywhere there is room and quickly set tool 0 to zero and then set a new tool length.The length of that arbor is shorter than anything I use.



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    Interesting point about TTS holders not holding dimension after being clamped via the drawbar. I have been measuring mine in the spindle via a height gauge and entering the number in the tool table. The plan is to switch to off machine measuring via a surface plate and the same height gauge, but now I'm having second thoughts about that. The issue I have is that my G0704 table isn't all that flat, maybe .003" off across it's length. I always try to park the table in the same spot for measuring, but with just moving the gauge around, perhaps not getting perfect repeatability, I may be getting more variation than I would with the surface plate. I also fight with cleaning the table, it has to be done every time I measure on the machine and there's the potential for error there as well. I guess I am going to have to do some tests, or switch to a touch off gauge. I used to do a probe routine to a fixed electronic tool height setter with Mach 3 that would write the TLO to the tool table, but now that I've switched to UCCNC that option has gone away. Machining... every time I start to feel like I've got it mostly under control I learn new things that I am not doing correctly,
    I don't know that I would call it doing anything wrong it's just one more variable to know about and try to eliminate if possible or at least account for in the process.



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    Please note I am not endorsing the blue mechanical tool setter I was using in the video.

    After using it for a couple of weeks I am finding the Z zero varies a little due to a poor design and construction of the link between the dial indicator and central tool touch plunger .

    I cannot see an easy way to fix this. I hope to do a review video soon. Cliff



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    I'm curious regarding the details of the internals but not curious enough to purchase one to take apart. I look forward to seeing your unit disassembled!



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    I use one I made that was a fun mill project.
    hy kenny, nice one ... why is 0 at the bottom ? can you make it work with 0 up ?

    the human body has enough iron to make a nail ... i can also make the hammer :) i mean a plastic hammer


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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    The zero was at the bottom becasue that indicator was made to be used 180 degrees from it's direction in the holder. It's esaily fixed by popping the big hand off and flipping it 180 degress. That's why I put the hint about putting a towel over the indicator face when popping the needle off.



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    hy kenny, i have seen later your reply from post #6 ... yes, if you mess with it you can rotate the needle, and increase your gentle skilss ... you know, there is a simpler solution, some dials have a knob to adjust the phase offset, just like shown in attached image

    the human body has enough iron to make a nail ... i can also make the hammer :) i mean a plastic hammer


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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    If you rotate that knob on my indicator you'll only tighten it enough to strip the threads or remove it from the indicator.



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    Default Re: What ToolSetter do you use?

    My favoured way of setting tool offsets is to zero the z axis on a flat surface with the Haimer (tool 50) Then I use a home made setter which has a height of 31mm. The thimble is sprung loaded and connected to a cheap battery light. As soon as the cutter touch's, 3 bright LED lights comes on. I enter the 31mm offset in the offsets page. and move on the next tool. This works for me.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What ToolSetter do you use?-p1020520-jpg  


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