Run from here problem


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Thread: Run from here problem

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    Default Run from here problem

    I make some of my parts using the chamfer op used in the main program on the top side, this works fine as the chamfers are the same size on both sides, I have been flipping the part and chamfering the back side on the same fixture using the same chamfer op as used on the first side, this has worked well until now. I use the "run from here" in pathpilot, now the chamfers are not the same size, one side is heavy the other very light on the back side of the part. It is symetrical so the op should work on either side, I have checked the drawing and fixture and everything checks out.

    I am wondering if the "run from here" function can cause this to be off, or what could be the problem?

    I drew up a simple test piece and had the same problem, the top chamfer was fine, the bottom was off by a few thou, any insight to this problem is very welcome as I am at a loss as to what is going on......??

    Rhino 4 and Sprutcam 7, Sprut has given me problems in the past but this is something new to me..........

    any help or insight greatly appreciated.

    thanks

    edit: PP2.3.6 1100 ser 3

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    mike sr


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    Member mountaindew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Run from here can be pretty broad statement. Are you re starting the program at a tool change point? Starting mid operation for me has never worked predictably. Starting at the beginning of an operation has never been a problem and If you still see error then I suspect its fixture or cam problem. I get bit by cad/cam work flow now and then. In iron cad I set the ucs and then send to sprutcam. If this is set to anything other then 0,0,0 then its wrong and often not easy to see until you flip a part or make one. When I do see what you described I check things like unseated part or tool heights and if nothing then back to drawing board to see where the error is in cad/cam.



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    Run from here can be pretty broad statement. Are you re starting the program at a tool change point? Starting mid operation for me has never worked predictably. Starting at the beginning of an operation has never been a problem and If you still see error then I suspect its fixture or cam problem. I get bit by cad/cam work flow now and then. In iron cad I set the ucs and then send to sprutcam. If this is set to anything other then 0,0,0 then its wrong and often not easy to see until you flip a part or make one. When I do see what you described I check things like unseated part or tool heights and if nothing then back to drawing board to see where the error is in cad/cam.
    when the first part of the program completes I use "run from here" at the correct tool to restart at the op needed for the reverse side chamfer after flipping the part.

    I can write a separate program for this, I was just trying to simplify things by doing it this way.

    The part is split in cad and mirrored to get both sides symetrical, this may be the problem as well, as sprut is a bit "finicy" sometimes on models.


    I have checked the fixture and model, they are both correct, CAM may be suspect though as one side of the part is wider than the other by a few thou but the model is correct. I have had problems in the past with Sprut not liking the igs file for some reason even though Rhino says its OK, usually I redraw it without so many changes and it will work, this may be the problem here??

    I always set my zero's in cad mainly as its kind of tricky for me to do it in sprut, then I check it after importing it.

    Thanks for the heads up on things to look for.........

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    If symmetrical and all datums are same then the code or control shouldn't know any difference. Quick test or your code would be to cut and past that operation code into a simple one tool one offset program and then run it on both sides of a test part. If there is still a problem then I would think the 2 sides are not really symmetrical.



  5. #5

    Default Re: Run from here problem

    It just post the chamfer op and run it twice. If there’s a difference, it’s not the code.



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Assuming you "run from here" right before a M06 tool change line, It sounds to me like something in workholding is changing.

    Are you using soft jaws? Did they shift when you last installed them, perhaps one being slightly higher than the other?



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    It just post the chamfer op and run it twice. If there’s a difference, it’s not the code.
    as near as I can figure the outer contour is off by .005, and when the part is flipped over it multiplies the error to .010 which will show up in the chamfer if it is correct. I believe the code is correct as it ran a couple months back fine.
    I am going to reboot PP and cut another part.

    thanks for your input

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    Assuming you "run from here" right before a M06 tool change line, It sounds to me like something in workholding is changing.

    Are you using soft jaws? Did they shift when you last installed them, perhaps one being slightly higher than the other?
    I select the tool with "find txx" left click and select run from here in the drop down window from a stopped program it highlights the tool and I set it as the start line just to run that particular op, the top side runs in the main program.

    This is just a problem that I didnt have before with this program.

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    have you run a dial on the part to make sure it's not lifting on one side when you flip it over



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    have you run a dial on the part to make sure it's not lifting on one side when you flip it over
    I know what you are saying, but no its bolted to a fixture against parallels in a vise. It appears that only the contour is off center, I am going to make another part after rebooting PP and see if it clears up.

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Also: flip left/right is different from flip top/bottom.
    If you flip it over left/right, do you get the same off center as if you flip it over top/bottom?



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    Also: flip left/right is different from flip top/bottom.
    If you flip it over left/right, do you get the same off center as if you flip it over top/bottom?
    The left and right ends are different so I have to flip front to back (X axis), I have to make a couple more today, different style so I will see if it still occurs with those. I did reboot PP but I still have the Probe page anomally, I think its the version I am using and I cant update or I lose the ninja knobs function as its aftermarket.

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    Run from here can be pretty broad statement. Are you re starting the program at a tool change point? Starting mid operation for me has never worked predictably. Starting at the beginning of an operation has never been a problem and If you still see error then I suspect its fixture or cam problem. I get bit by cad/cam work flow now and then. In iron cad I set the ucs and then send to sprutcam. If this is set to anything other then 0,0,0 then its wrong and often not easy to see until you flip a part or make one. When I do see what you described I check things like unseated part or tool heights and if nothing then back to drawing board to see where the error is in cad/cam.
    Looks like PP ver 2.4.2 gives users a few more options for running mid operation with prep moves. Might take some testing to understand better what is going to happen and what a user has to do before it is started.
    I,m running programs that warn me about 100,000+ lines of motion and the limit to display them. It would be nice to re-start operations like this at a given level or other desired point near the end and not repeat code . Big time saver when you have big programs.



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    I cut a couple new parts but had to use a separate chamfer program, it cut exactly where it should. Maybe an anomaly in the run from here option who knows??

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    I . Maybe an anomaly in the run from here option who knows??
    strange , it shouldn't be an issue with the run from here if properly coded . I use it a good number of times in a day and I've never had a problem



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmayhem View Post
    strange , it shouldn't be an issue with the run from here if properly coded . I use it a good number of times in a day and I've never had a problem
    I have never had PP do anything it shouldnt as far as machining, I am leaning toward CAM now as the part is cutting off center by about .005, the model and fixture check out, maybe something in Sprutcam, sometimes it doesnt like an .igs file that has too many changes in it.

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    I have never had PP do anything it shouldnt as far as machining, I am leaning toward CAM now as the part is cutting off center by about .005, the model and fixture check out, maybe something in Sprutcam, sometimes it doesnt like an .igs file that has too many changes in it.
    This is where I find most my problems. I mentioned above its back to the cad/cam to see where I goofed. Using Ironcad Inovate I can draw so fast its amazing, but its also easy to design some silly error in the model that's hard to see until your making it. Or have an offset shifted by some tiny amount in Sprutcam when importing and setting up model. Failure to check a few of these critical steps and Its easy for me to get bit.



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    This is where I find most my problems. I mentioned above its back to the cad/cam to see where I goofed. Using Ironcad Inovate I can draw so fast its amazing, but its also easy to design some silly error in the model that's hard to see until your making it. Or have an offset shifted by some tiny amount in Sprutcam when importing and setting up model. Failure to check a few of these critical steps and Its easy for me to get bit.
    I redrew the model in Rhino, no changes etc and still had the same problem, the parts are not critical tolerances, the problem is cosmetics, I can fix this by moving my center .005 in Y, then running the chamfer. Actually the outer contour is whats is off, good rainy day project.............

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    I redrew the model in Rhino, no changes etc and still had the same problem, the parts are not critical tolerances, the problem is cosmetics, I can fix this by moving my center .005 in Y, then running the chamfer. Actually the outer contour is whats is off, good rainy day project.............
    Could be a compounding machining error. Tool heights, tool flex, tool runout, non flat / square/ parallel machining surfaces before and after operations and flipping sides all compound any little error/problem. When you get to the final whisper cuts on the last side to finish you can see something is off.

    If you made this in the past and now your getting different results maybe problem is cutting tools size, flex, overhang, runout has changed. I see this a lot when I speed things up.



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    Default Re: Run from here problem

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    Could be a compounding machining error. Tool heights, tool flex, tool runout, non flat / square/ parallel machining surfaces before and after operations and flipping sides all compound any little error/problem. When you get to the final whisper cuts on the last side to finish you can see something is off.

    If you made this in the past and now your getting different results maybe problem is cutting tools size, flex, overhang, runout has changed. I see this a lot when I speed things up.
    I am thinking maybe the problem is as simple as the indicating hole in the fixture! I replaced all the screw holes in the fixture with carbon steel ones as they were wearing out, I think somewhere in the process I made a screw up of about .005, have yet to check it out though. When one passes the 80 mark things slow down, my brain is at the top of the list!!

    thanks for your input

    mike sr


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