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Thread: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    While not a 770, I had a Tormach PCNC 1100 for over 10 years and recently sold it to upgrade. During my time of ownership, the machine was incredibly reliable and the support/service was 2nd to none. Even well after the warranty expired, Tormach would still answer questions or help if I needed it.

    I had the choice to by a very clean Hass Mini Mill or a new Tormach.1100 M+ Both were roughly the same price. I chose the Tormach for one primary reason, long term cost running costs. IF the Haas had a failure, related to the spindle o control boards, things get expensive very quick.

    Yes the Haas is a much more capable machine with regards to MMR and accuracy. Even with that, having a new machine with a warranty, proven support track record, and accuracy around .001" when care is taken, was all I needed.

    Thinking long term, like my previous machine, repairs were fairly inexpensive and parts were readily available from Tormach.

    IF you are making a living and parts production is really important and you can justify the possible support costs, then the Hass very well may be the better choice. If you are a Hobbyist or small production person like I am, the Tormach may be a good choice for you.



  2. #22
    Member Kenny Duval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    edited...



  3. #23
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    I’m able to hold +/-0.01mm/0.0004” on a well tuned 770, primarily on titanium (Ti6Al4V) production pieces. Some thermal expansions in X and Y will shift the position a little. The Z zero usually starts -0.025mm/-0.001” on a cold start and will produce first part on size, then it stays relatively stable throughout the rest of the runs.

    This is not a typical result, but just sharing what’s possible. I frequently checks for backlash and compensate them accordingly. Gibs will move and affect backlash/lost motion. I have adjusted them nearly half a dozen times in a year.



  4. #24
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    Don't buy one.

    .
    .
    .
    Did that work...?

    Last edited by burs; 11-21-2019 at 02:46 AM. Reason: inappropiate content


  5. #25
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    Hookers and blow are great, but why not all three? The real question is which is more addictive. I'd argue machining is.

    That said, you can build a machine out of another Chinese machine and get the same or better results than a 770 provides and do so for less money. It does take access to a lathe, another mill, and a lot of patience though. Probably not a great option for somebody without access to those things or time to diddle about. It's probably not for everybody...



  6. #26
    Member Kenny Duval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    I will be redoing the conversion on my BF20 once I take delivery and get familiar with my new machine. It'll be ready to go to a new home before the summer gets here. I'm going to linear rail it, add the oil circuits and redo all the motor mounts. Should be a good machine for someone to do what I did with it and learn on it.



  7. #27
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    I love my 770. This would be my opinion for you:

    You listed all metals in your list of materials to work with: "Aluminum, steel, and titanium." "Mild steel in bigger parts."

    I'm speaking from experience owning a 770. Get the 770 and not the 440 if you are going to spend any real time in steel or titanium. It's a bare minimum machine already for this kind of work. I make small titanium parts on my 770. It's what I primarily use it for right now.

    The VFD in the 770 has been more bulletproof than in the 440. The spindle is 1hp (or more on the new ones) instead of .75 on the 440.

    You'll already be learning the sweet spots to work with steel and titanium on a low power machine, don't compound it by getting even less power.

    Take a 770 with less up front options rather than 440 with more options. Skip the full enclosure and get a shower curtain if you have to to make up the price difference, but get the 770. You'll be more likely to be happy with it long term.

    Even on the 770 you have to LEARN how to cut steel and titanium with only 1hp. I personally wouldn't want 25% less spindle HP than I currently have... the sweet spot is narrow enough already. A 5/16" tialn / altin / nacro coated end mill is already about as large as the 770 can handle well in steel or Ti.



  8. #28
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    770 for sure. After you add up cost of tooling, work holding, cooling, etc. (which are pretty much the same for 770 or 440), the 770 is probably about 10% more $. 440 only makes sense if don’t have the space. Also, I get the impression from my un-scientific survey forum posts that the 770 is more reliable.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



  9. #29
    Member Bob La Londe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    Quote Originally Posted by RussMachine View Post
    You CAN tap on the 770 without an encoder.
    Depth-control is the only drawback.

    I use the R32 Collet- Tension/Compression tap holder from TORMACH.
    And without an encoder, depth control isn't exact. (+/- 2-3 threads)
    When tapping, the holder will "stretch" at the end of the cut when the spindle reverses.
    It will cut an extra 2-3 threads while the tension head "stretches",
    This isn't really a big deal when tapping thru holes, but nerve-racking in blind holes.

    Also, the largest tap I can push with the tapping head is 5/16" (8MM).
    Anything larger, and the spindle wants to stall.
    For 3/8" (9MM) and up, I have to threadmill.

    Threadmilling is actually the better choice, for depth control (in blind holes), and finer quality threads.
    Excellent review of TC tapping. I have kind of embraced it with premade styles in my CAM software for tapping with the TC tappers. I have one Tormach TC tapper, and have made a few of my own on the PM1440 lathe so that I can have my most common tap sizes preloaded and premeasured. 10-32, 1/4-20, 5/16-18, and 6-32 (in that order). I tap the smaller sizes in aluminum in high gear at 500 RPM. I do switch to low gear in steel or for 5/16 or above. I also have tapped 5/16-18 aluminum in high in aluminum because I forgot to change gears before. The 1100 is slightly higher power, and slightly better low end torque. It is pretty scary in blind holes. So far for thread milling I just have single form tools (multi flute), and they take longer than TC tapping if I have more than a couple holes to tap. Are you using muti form tools? Of course you can turn higher RPM so it might be faster on a 770.

    Anyway, I like the TC tapping so much I have been spending some of my time thinking about how I would make them for my Hurco KMB1 retrofit machine. Other than just sticking one in a tool holder. Its already quite long, and putting one in a tool holder would leave me cranking the knee up and down for a while. LOL It also does NOT have C-axis spindle control. I currently do single form thread milling with it.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


  10. #30
    Member maker of things's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk Me Out of a Tormach 770

    I think generally people are more prone to spend the time to review a negative experience than one that met expectations. Some of the negative comments IMO are from 1) people who do not own a machine at all, but think it's fun to tell Tormach owners that they should just get a Haas because in reality they are jealous of anyone that owns a machine, 2) people that had expectations much higher than the product they bought and 3) capable people with legitimate problems who got a bad product. Possibly in that order.
    I can tell you from personal experience that you are not going to do your own conversion and get the functionality and accuracy of a Tormach for the money. If you did, you probably could have made more money running the Tormach than spending hundreds of hours building something that turns out to be very difficult to sell because it's a one off.
    Sorry that probably didn't talk you out of it.

    -Jon


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