Tormach 770 Newbie?

[Gamble]

Looking into a used 770.
Total newbie with minimal experience with my Taig but this popped up and I may jump on it.

If I get a 770 what minimal tools should I be looking at? I plan on mostly doing aluminum
It will come with the basic tool set (no end mills) and flood coolant (has height gauge too)
I haven't seen a basic end mill set and drill set. Also can't decide if I should get 1 or 2 vises? Again not all that sure of what I will be doing just yet. Up until now most things have been 3"x4" since I'm limited on my current bed

Also looking for a decent DIY enclosure. Tormach had one on their site but all links are broke and I can't fathom the idea of spending $3k on one.

I love the idea of a fixture plate but only ever seen the one smw. However I'd too scared to crash into it for now so looking for some cheaper alternatives or if it's easy enough to make seeing how the 770 can thread.
Obviously this is worlds apart from my little taig so want to be sure I dont waste money on non needed items.

Any help is appreciated

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[kstrauss]

Talk of "Minimal tools" and multiple vises and fixture plates probably should not be in the same sentence! And particularly not if you have no specific projects in mind.

I assume that you have a way to cut stock to size.

As a start I would purchase a clamp set, a single vise (I mostly use an overpriced 4-inch Kurt on my 770), a set of parallels, a half-dozen TTS holders (I prefer ER16 ones for both endmills and drills) together with collets, and a selection of endmills (I have gotten good results in aluminum with the Shars ZrN coated ones but YG1, Maritool and others make excellent products). You will certainly break some endmills so I would get a half-dozen of each of perhaps 1/8, 1/4 and 3/8 ones. Depending on your need for small holes you could purchase a set of drills from a quality maker such as Precision Drills. Alternatively, purchase only tap and clearance drills in sizes appropriate for your work.

I assume that you have an edge finder and a way of setting the Z-height from your Taig work. If not, a Haimer 3D Taster might be a good purchase.

A pendant such as the Tormach shuttle will be very helpful. Adding a Power Drawbar will be super useful but certainly not essential to start. Don't forget a selection of stock to work with.

As you gain experience and tackle new projects you may want to explore using soft jaws (Monster Jaws are almost the same price as raw stock). And a way to surface stock such as the Tormach Superfly or a cheap far-East face mill. And of course spare inserts for your Superfly or whatever you choose.

Although their prices are not the cheapest, Tormach has all of the above items on their website and may be a good source for a beginning user.

Enjoy your new toy!

[Gamble]

I have one set of parallels but probably grab another

It does come with a jog shuttle and a passive z probe. Not even sure if the passive probe does material height.

I added some stuff to my cart, can you have a look? I do want some 5flute end mills for steel but considering the price I'll wait a little before getting into steel (until I get a good enclosure or the Tormach chip guard)

I want the larger vise but it's out of stock currently. I do have a good amount of 1/4, 3/16, 1/8 end mills so just tossed in some 3/8 and 1/2 ones. I'll get another set of collets for sure. Does the TTS come with optional ER16 or Er20?

I do have a guy who wants 50 of a piece if I can make them and they do have a large thread. So once I get the sample part I can take measurements off of I'm hoping it will be the first job I have and can knock it out quickly

Is that superfly worth it or is there a better option from shars? I also would like a shear hog, but can probably wait as going 1/2" end mill will be a lot faster than my current 1/4

Any other help is greatly appreciated
Thanks!

[kstrauss]

In my opinion the Tormach chip guard is far more of a pain than a benefit; I'll happily donate mine.

Tormach TTS holders are available in ER16, ER20 and ER32. Unfortunately there are no ER11 ones. You will want at least enough TTS holders to hold all tools required for a particular job since PathPilot essentially forces you to use the tool table unless the gcode for each cutter is in a separate file.

I have a Superfly but almost never use it. In my opinion holding the cutter with only set screws is dangerous. In addition it is inherently unbalanced. I bought a cheap Chinese 4-insert facemill for SEHT1204 inserts (the same as the Superfly) is much better. Due to the rather puny 770 spindle motor I use it with only two inserts. See https://www.ebay.ca/itm/1P-KM12-50-2...t/163845371613 for a current listing although not the supplier that I used. If you go this route you will also need a 3/4-inch shank arbour (FMB22).

I really like the 3/4-inch ShearHog and use it daily.

Looking at your list:
The Mitutoyo calipers are nicer since they are absolute. But they cost considerably more. In any case if dimensions to be checked are critical you probably want to use a micrometer rather than calipers.

The clamping set appears to be for 3/8-inch studs; 1/2-13 studs are usual for a 770. Ensure that the chosen set includes the right size of T-nuts for your table slots.

The listed vise seems extremely cheap. Does the supplier provide any specifications regarding base to table parallelism and other important specifications?

Do you need long end mills for your planned work? They cost more than normal length plus tend to chatter. If you need to do very deep pockets you may want to investigate reduced shank end mills. If possible I choose stub rather than normal length. For larger cutters (1/2-inch or larger) I mostly use HSS rather than carbide. They tend to be much cheaper and seem to last almost as long as carbide ones.

[Gamble]

I have a small fly cutter now but scared to use it. They do just seem unstable. I would rather get a face mill

Hmm I thought it was 3/8" slot. I'll call tormach to find out.
I know a few guys with smaller mills used those vices and seemed to like them. I'm not looking for .0001 precision just enough to get me rolling and in the .005 category to start with.

I was thinking long end mills so I can watch the cut easier and keep some clearance from the head to stock incase I F up something. I'll probably get both anyway

[kstrauss]

See https://www.tormach.com/store/index....show&ref=31957

[C*H*U*D]

Also can't decide if I should get 1 or 2 vises?

Since you're just starting out, I would agree with kstrauss and recommend one for now...at least until you get a better feel for what you'll be making.

But, I wouldn't get the biggest vise you can find. The 770 has limited real estate, and one day you WILL want another vise, so get something that you can fit two of on the table. I use two Tormach 5" CNC vises and they fit very well. And if I need to hold something much larger, then two vises can be paired up so they are both holding the stock.

I also agree on the ER16 over ER20 tool holders. The 770 does better running fast and light than slow and heavy, so that means smaller tools. The ER20 covers too much of the tool when using small endmills, so getting coolant in and chips out can be an issue.

DIY enclosures are pretty simple. You can go the more rigid (and more expensive) route, but a "PVC pipe/shower curtain" setup works fine. Search for enclosures here in the Tormach section and you'll find great examples.

A fixture plate is awesome to have, but expensive for just starting out. A good vise on the table will be fine.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Gamble]

Do you think I can make a 1/2 size fixture plate and just add onto it later down the line? I like to have a little buffer above the table so I don't dive into it

[CL_MotoTech]

The 4" Shars vises are pretty awesome little vises. I also like their 5" and 6" vise, I use them on my G0704, which as I recall, has a similar amount of space as the 770. I fairly often run two 4" vises. Of course it depends on what you are making what size vise you can get away with. And Shars sells soft jaws for all their vises, they are so cheap it's not worth making your own. The 6" vise is pretty big on my table, anything larger would be too much.

https://www.shars.com/products/workh...-vise-0-0004-1

[kstrauss]

Do you think I can make a 1/2 size fixture plate and just add onto it later down the line? I like to have a little buffer above the table so I don't dive into it

Certainly. I even made a "micro" plate that fits in my little 4-inch Kurt vise. Another possibility is to clamp your stock on top of 1-2-3 blocks to provide for clearance underneath. Depending on accuracy requirements I often clamp on top of MDF to protect the mill table.

[Gamble]

Perfect.

What do you recommend for flood coolant? Full or partial synthetic?

Also what about this? Any downside to going to a 3" even if facing a stock that's smaller? The 3" shell mill is $99 and the 2" is $79
And which inserts? Assuming different inserts for steel, vs stainless vs aluminum?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...NA6WTMGT&psc=1

[kstrauss]

I would not choose that face mill. It is R8 so not TTS compatible plus it doesn't appear to use positive rake inserts and therefore probably requires more power than a 770 can provide. The power concern is even worse with the larger mill. If you are using both smaller cutters and a large face mill on the same job you will need to move the belt between high/low range which I find to be time consuming and thus a huge pain. Also you cannot currently change the belt within a single gcode file. Tormach claims that as a new feature you can change the speed range at tool change time with PP 2.3.4 but I haven't yet tried that.

I no longer use flood coolant so someone else will have to address that question.

[Gamble]

I would not choose that face mill. It is R8 so not TTS compatible plus it doesn't appear to use positive rake inserts and therefore probably requires more power than a 770 can provide. The power concern is even worse with the larger mill. If you are using both smaller cutters and a large face mill on the same job you will need to move the belt between high/low range which I find to be time consuming and thus a huge pain. Also you cannot currently change the belt within a single gcode file. Tormach claims that as a new feature you can change the speed range at tool change time with PP 2.3.4 but I haven't yet tried that.

I no longer use flood coolant so someone else will have to address that question.

Any face mill you recommend? The fly cutter scares me a little
The collect in the spindle says R8 that holds the TTS. So are those different ?

[CL_MotoTech]

I looked around for a TTS .875" arbor, that sure would make face mill selection easier. I've not found one yet. I have a really face mill with round inserts that I'd like to run on TTS, but without an arbor it's impossible.

[kstrauss]

The collet that holds TTS tooling is indeed R8 and you could certainly use the face mill that you linked. However, using R8 tooling has two problems:
1) there is no way to ensure a reproducible tool length (Z-offset)
2) you have to remove the usual R8 3/4-inch collet. This is a problem if you have the Power Draw Bar (which I heartily recommend). If you remove the collet and replace it with an R8 facemill you will then need to reset the drawbar tension when you next use a TTS tool.

You can use any facemill with a 3/4-inch straight shank. I believe that I posted a link to my personal choice earlier in this thread.

[kstrauss]

Are you certain that you need a 0.875 arbour? For cheap imports 22mm (0.866) are far more common. If you need 22mm then search eBay for FMB22 and 3/4-inch straight. It is easy to convert such to be TTS compatible. See https://www.ebay.ca/itm/3-4-FMB22-St...t/292672082039 for one example.

[CL_MotoTech]

I measured it really quick, as i recall the arbor was something like .862. I didn't even calibrate, so I just assumed it was .875, but if 22mm is common, then I bet you are correct.

What would I do, run that 3/4 shank in a er32 TTS holder? I have an ATC. Or I suppose do a manual tool change for that tool. I don't do that much facing so I suppose a manual tool change isn't the end of the world.

[CL_MotoTech]

Well, I answered my own question.

Here's one with an ATC ring.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-3-4-FMB...wAAOSwvwhdPrdn

Thanks for the info, kstrauss. That's an epic find more me!

[CL_MotoTech]

Also, to OP, stick with a smallish face mill if you do find one. One inch or so, three inserts. That 1.1kw spindle won't like much more. I'm running 2.2kw (4kw peak) and can strain the system with my 2" 4 insert face mill. My previous spindle motor was 1.3kw and on occasion I stalled it at 1:1 with the same face mill, and I had to be really conservative with my feeds. Made beautiful cuts when I got it right though.

[kstrauss]

I don't have an ATC so, unfortunately, all of my changes are manual!
The easiest but not the cheapest way to adapt things is to add a https://www.tormach.com/Search/?q=32432 to the 3/4-inch shank. That should allow at least the smaller facemills to work with your ATC. Lacking an ATC I simply used my lathe to cut a TTS recess into the body of the arbour.