HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX - Page 3


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Thread: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

  1. #25
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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    I think Tormach has found themselves in a tough situation recently. The original founder saw a niche market for a hobby mill that was better than the Harbor Freight-Grizzly offerings, but still at a reasonable price point. Then they began to overmarket themselves through the use of paid sponsors on You Tube and ended up competing with professional machines with not so professional results. Now, the new tariffs are pushing their pricing into the same area as professional machines- the old tariffs were 4.1% and the new 25% tariff is on top of that, so that is 29.1% of the pricing going to pay down our national debt and probably 50% going to the Chinese manufacturer, while the money spent on a Haas is circulated 100% inside the USA and in the private sector.



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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    I don't think they compete with the factory mills. A basic Haas, landed on the shop floor, is > $50k, and also gulps air and needs phase converter power from a high-amp 220V circuit. An 1100 is < $25k, and the 440 is $15k, and they plug into the wall outlet you already have. As a hobbyist, there's no way I can turn over enough seat cushions and find loose change to afford the Haas (or Brother, or Mazak, or whatever,) but careful budgeting did allow me to put a Tormach in the garage, and it does what I need it to do.
    Some professionals they may be able to go after might be people who run their own little service shop -- yes, it's a business, and yes, it makes money from the machining work they do -- but it's not a global-market price-competitive precision job shop environment. The competition there is really "do it on the manual mill," not a work-cell based automated machining factory floor.



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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    pay down our national debt
    That gave me a chuckle!

    We've never paid down the national debt, in dollars. Coming out of World War II, we had a really big debt. The dollar amount owed by the US government has grown every year since then on average (except for some slight variation.)
    The reason we haven't yet collapsed, is that the GDP has grown faster than the debt, so the percentage-of-GDP debt isn't nearly as big as it was coming out of WWII. In other words, we keep re-financing the debt forward, rather than paying it off, and economic growth ends up paying for it. (Pretty sweet deal :-)
    Anyway, enough numbers; back to G code !



  4. #28
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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    This subject is always endlessly fascinating because we are so torn between envy and caution.! An industrial VCM like the Haas or Brother discussed is maybe 4x faster and more accurate than an 1100.

    So rough rule of thumb we should pay a fraction of that cost for a Tormach..That is possible if you just buy the base machine and build the rest yourself... and run it on a much lower hourly rate. I once competed head on with my 1100 against a VMC shop for a medium size part. I got the job one time - they got it the next. Each part took me 1 1/2 hours on my 1100 - they told me they make them in 15 minutes! Tough lesson I learned from this is - I can only compete on small parts.

    Cliff



  5. #29
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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    A HAAS is easily twice the machine... at twice the price all-in.

    For a machine-shop business if you can fog a mirror, HAAS will finance a machine and if your business wads up, HAAS will come take your machine away again.

    Tormach doesn't have that (same reason IMO the Chinese discount-VMCs don't do so well), but you can bit-and-piece your machine together over time which appeals to hobbyists and shops that aren't trying to make their margin on each part coming off the machine.



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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    I'm just guessing, but perhaps also short runs of small stuff the big boys don't want to mess with.



  7. #31
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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    A decent used Haas Super Mini mill goes for like $30k. That's 15hp, 1100ipm rapids. Not much of a comparison assuming the Haas doesn't kill you on maintenance to get a used machine operational.



  8. #32
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    Default Re: HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    assuming the Haas doesn't kill you on maintenance to get a used machine operational.
    That would be my concern...... I had a 95' Fadal VMC15 and trying to get some of the parts for that machine was kind of tricky.

    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew


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HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX

HASS vs. Tormach 1100MX