Video BT30 or R8/TTS?


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Thread: BT30 or R8/TTS?

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    Default BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Hi Folks

    Big decisions ahead for new Tormach buyers...BT30 or R8/TTS? And is retrofitting a BT30 spindle a good idea?

    Please post your thoughts in this thread.

    I start the ball rolling with this video:

    Cheers Cliff



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Depends what you plan to do with it.... For an ATC, BT30 (or ANY real machine taper - BT/ISO/etc.) is preferable to R8. But, of course, your only choice for an off-the-shelf ATC is the Tormach one, which REQUIRES R8/TTS. For manual use, it doesn't make one bit of difference which you have, which one small exception - The Tormach PDB does not reliably retain TTS toolholders under maximum-effort cuts (MRR >= ~3.0). I dont know of Tormach has a version of their PDB that supports BT30, but if you plan to push the machine to its limits, and/or work with hard materials, AND use the Tormach PDB, I would get confirmation that the pullout problem does not exist with that combination. If you're not using a PDB, then, again, there is no reason to prefer one over the other. R8/TTS toolholders are generally cheaper, and more readily available, than BT30.

    So, to answer your question as to which is better, R8 or BT30: It depends...

    You absolutely can swap out the entire spindle cartridge to change from R8 to BT30. That has been an available option for many years, and it is a very simple swap.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    I went R8/TTS. I'm wating for Tormach's BT30 support to mature.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    Depends what you plan to do with it.... For an ATC, BT30 (or ANY real machine taper - BT/ISO/etc.) is preferable to R8. But, of course, your only choice for an off-the-shelf ATC is the Tormach one, which REQUIRES R8/TTS. For manual use, it doesn't make one bit of difference which you have, which one small exception - The Tormach PDB does not reliably retain TTS toolholders under maximum-effort cuts (MRR >= ~3.0). I dont know of Tormach has a version of their PDB that supports BT30, but if you plan to push the machine to its limits, and/or work with hard materials, AND use the Tormach PDB, I would get confirmation that the pullout problem does not exist with that combination. If you're not using a PDB, then, again, there is no reason to prefer one over the other. R8/TTS toolholders are generally cheaper, and more readily available, than BT30.

    So, to answer your question as to which is better, R8 or BT30: It depends...

    You absolutely can swap out the entire spindle cartridge to change from R8 to BT30. That has been an available option for many years, and it is a very simple swap.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    Some good points there Ray - Thanks, Cliff



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by burdickjp View Post
    I went R8/TTS. I'm wating for Tormach's BT30 support to mature.
    Hi - I am guessing you have got manual toolchanging? Cliff



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    I must be missing something in this conversation. A taper system I thought has a pull-stud and locking dogs on side of holder. The pull stud eliminates holder pullout and the locking dogs on side ensure no rotary slip.
    On paper the taper system would have none of the problems a TTS system has for pullout or slip. Making the pdb system less of a clamp force and more of a lock force. As for pdb and tool changer, I don't see why Tormach would offer a new tool system without those options ready to go.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    I must be missing something in this conversation. A taper system I thought has a pull-stud and locking dogs on side of holder. The pull stud eliminates holder pullout and the locking dogs on side ensure no rotary slip.
    On paper the taper system would have none of the problems a TTS system has for pullout or slip. Making the pdb system less of a clamp force and more of a lock force. As for pdb and tool changer, I don't see why Tormach would offer a new tool system without those options ready to go.
    The pull-stud keeps the taper loaded, typically with Belleville springs, exactly like TTS. Don't provide enough tension on the pull-stud, and the toolholder can pull down. Required tension is less than for TTS (~1300# for 30-taper). With manual use, and proper tightening of the drawbar, pull-out will not be an issue. If a PDB is used, and it provides enough tension, pull-out will not be an issue. The Tormach PDB CANNOT be used with BT30, for several reasons.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Hi - I am guessing you have got manual toolchanging? Cliff
    For the time being, yes, manual tool changing. I've got a 770M. It's my understanding that with the MX machines Tormach intends on doing an ATC with the BT30 spindle and that I would be able to upgrade to the BT30 spindle and the BT30 ATC when they become available. I'm not yet sold on BT30. I'm reserving judgement for when I can sit down with concrete costs for conversion including new tool holders and buying the available BT30 spindle for my manual mill as well.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by burdickjp View Post
    For the time being, yes, manual tool changing. I've got a 770M. It's my understanding that with the MX machines Tormach intends on doing an ATC with the BT30 spindle and that I would be able to upgrade to the BT30 spindle and the BT30 ATC when they become available. I'm not yet sold on BT30. I'm reserving judgement for when I can sit down with concrete costs for conversion including new tool holders and buying the available BT30 spindle for my manual mill as well.
    I'm in the same boat. I've had an 1100/3 for four years and recently purchased two 1100/M's. I got one of the new machines with ATC and one without in case I wanted to upgrade to the BT30. However, when I sit down and see how much I have invested in tool holders I cringe at the thought of having to replace all of those. For the work I do, I've not had the TTS pullout issues (I also do PM on the collet system about every three months and replace the R8 once a year). The real selling point for me will be if they have the rigid tapping side dialed in. Otherwise, I'll just keep rocking with my TTS setup.

    Saw the 1100MX at FabTech yesterday. Was surprised that all their other machines were cutting away on actual products but the MX was just doing movements..... I think they are still a ways off on release.....

    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew


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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    I also do PM on the collet system about every three months and replace the R8 once a year
    I'm wonder how much lack of preventative maintenance or poor operating practice has to do with pullout problems.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by burdickjp View Post
    I'm wonder how much lack of preventative maintenance or poor operating practice has to do with pullout problems.
    "+1 on poor operating practice" Its easy to get one to move. All you have to do is ignore tool stick-out, bad cutter, crappy fixture …… run some heavy cuts and before you know it chatter, noise, the dog runs out of the shop and the tool and or the part starts moving.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Hi Ray. Your comment "The Tormach PDB CANNOT be used with BT30, for several reasons."

    I imagine that is because a pull stud PDB needs more travel to operate, and maybe a bit less force, so a redesign is needed. Please add any info you have on this eg more comp air consumption, design of cylinder, etc.

    Cliff



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