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Thread: BT30 or R8/TTS?

  1. #37
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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    No comments guys? What do you think about the BT30 potential problems... and what are your future spindle type plans?

    Cliff



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    No comments guys? What do you think about the BT30 potential problems... and what are your future spindle type plans?

    Cliff
    I may upgrade one of my new 1100M's provided I can upgrade to have the encoder for rigid tapping. Otherwise, I've got waaay to much invested in TTS to change over. Most of my work is 1/4" EMs and smaller so the pullout has never been an issue. Also, I do preventative maintenance on the R8 collet on a regular basis (about once a month) and replace the collet and draw bar annually. I've had little to no pullout issues even with the shear hog.

    The Body Armor Dude - Andrew


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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    No comments guys? What do you think about the BT30 potential problems... and what are your future spindle type plans?

    Cliff
    Nice work Cliff. I use TTS on my Novakon. It uses a threaded rod for the pdb draw bar allowing the use of TTS or solid r8 tool holder. The tool changes take longer with the r8 shank, but there is less chatter and no chance of pullout using a solid holder. I think TTS is the biggest drawback with these small machines, but i really dont see better option relative to the overall cost/rigidity of the machine as a whole. There was a video of one of the Fadal founders who created a "cat r8" drawbar and tool holders for small machines he was developing. Too bad it never got any legs, as it looked like a cost effective way to have a true draw bar with a pull stud. TTS friction based tool holding where you also use lubricant is a recipe for cross contamination of the shank when changing tools etc. I really have to stay on top of insuring the outside of the collet is lubricated, while the inside has to remain clean. Tough to do when you make 100's of tool changes every day. Full disclosure, i push my machine hard every day using 1/2" tools. The use of High helix end mills in combination with HSM tool paths can really make these small machines very useful, unfortunately those two things increase the down force causing worse pullout issues.



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Thanks guys - anyone planning to go to BT30 after considering these points discussed in the forum. and in the videos and youtube comments?

    Cliff



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Cliff

    non-Tormach owner here who owns & loves my ITTP. Yes, I'm switching from R8/TTS to BT30 soon(ish).

    I purchased a 10k cartridge spindle and have a few details to work out (new spindle motor, new PDB, bore the head for the spindle, etc.) but I should be starting work on the conversion soon.

    Primary reason is that I want better process reliability than TTS affords so I can run with less attention. Despite having drawbar torque up to about 35-40ft-lbs I get tool pull-out with 3/8" & 1/2" end mills. Even with extremely short gauge length stub end mills, dry collet, and clean tool holder shanks. While its rare, the minute chatter or squealing starts I know the toolholder has probably moved.

    I can mill aluminum all day long with no issue, but as I'm doing more steel work recently I find I have to be extremely conservative with my cuts to avoid any chatter. I simply can't trust the TTS with my particular mill on paying work. For personal stuff, fine - but when I don't have any extra customer stock I can't take a chance.

    Your video demonstrating the reduction in friction due to vibration was very useful - very similar to a concrete vibrator. One of those can cause peanut butter consistency concrete to flow like water.

    And thank you for the videos, very informative and much appreciated.

    -Ralph



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Thanks for that Ralph, most apprecieated.

    "Primary reason is that I want better process reliability than TTS affords so I can run with less attention." Are you running a toolchanger ...or manual changes and just want to eliminate TTS shifting ?

    (assuming you are not running one ) For doing your paying work, what are your thoughts on a toolchanger (I am making a video on this subject currently).

    Cliff



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    Default Re: BT30 or R8/TTS?

    Cliff,

    Yes to both - I want a toolchanger to speed up production work, and I want to eliminate TTS pull-out. A BT30 spindle is the first step.

    Not running a tool changer right now, but building/buying one is also in the near future after the spindle & motor are installed and sorted out. Right now I'm doing manual tool changes with a home-brew power draw bar.

    The work I've been doing - so far - seems to require many tool changes. I've been trying to maximize productivity with multi-part fixtures, but it drives me nuts to have an expensive part-making robot slave who can't put down the fork and pick up the spoon without me.

    As far as reliability goes, I have had a few jobs with longer (>5 minutes) roughing operations where it'd be nice to go do something else like clean the shop or whatever. But due to previous pull-out events I simply can't walk away from the machine if I'm cutting steel. Aluminum - fine. But not steel unless I've programmed extremely conservative tool paths with small (low pressure) tools. Even then I'm standing within arm's reach to feed-hold at the first sign of squealing. I've tried the old "let it run, see if it works itself out" method - no dice.

    So - even if I never get a toolchanger, I still want to eliminate tool pull-out without resorting to frustratingly slow machining times.

    Take this with a large grain of salt: I'm extremely new at machining & CNC, so I'm not any sort of expert on what is needed to do efficient production work. I just happen to be a new-ish hobby guy with a fantastic mentor who's been throwing his overflow work at me.

    -Ralph



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BT30 or R8/TTS?

BT30 or R8/TTS?