Path Pilot vs Mach 4

[GLCarlson]

Is the "tool library" another name for the "tool table" or...? I can't imagine working without using the tool table to control offsets.

Yep, at least in context.

FWIW, moving to a tool table when I switched to PP was a huge pain in the tochus. For two weeks. Until I finally got it and had some experience using it. Mach3 let me be sloppy and not use one, and the original Tormach manual even encouraged that in their demo program. And after those two weeks...machine operation is easier and better. Using a tool table is one of those best practices that PP enforces. It's a feature, not a bug.

[Bob La Londe]

Yep, at least in context.

FWIW, moving to a tool table when I switched to PP was a huge pain in the tochus. For two weeks. Until I finally got it and had some experience using it. Mach3 let me be sloppy and not use one, and the original Tormach manual even encouraged that in their demo program. And after those two weeks...machine operation is easier and better. Using a tool table is one of those best practices that PP enforces. It's a feature, not a bug.

I've got four machines with no chance of having any way to repeat tool height. I found ringed tools were pretty consistent in height, but they varied a little when clamped up in an ER collet so a tool table just didn't work for me in those machines. Eventually I may swap two of them out for ISO20 spindles. Then it would make sense. On my big mill with the Kwik200 tool holders it might have worked, but I still have to walk out there and change the tool so I just lower and then raise the knee never changing the Z offset. I'm definitely going have to spend some time getting used to using the tool tables on the Tormach with the ATC.

[ger21]

Does PP require the use of G43? If not, then tool length shouldn't really matter.

[kstrauss]

There is no easy way to manually change Z-offset in the middle of a job so you really do need to use the tool table. Like GLCarlson I found it a pain to adjust when moving from Mach3 to PP. Now I can effortlessly set the Z-offset once and then change tools as required without pausing. A vastly better approach! I can't imagine doing it the stupid Mach3 way of touching off after every tool change.

[CL_MotoTech]

I haven't touched off after a tool change since installing a screen set in Mach 3. In fact i log tool lengths nearly autonomously. I can even log tools like drills during a program autonomously. This is great if I'm doing multiple drilling cycles with different bits but their length changes due to only having one chuck.

I'm hardly the type to wave the flag of a company, it's a fodder for those who are sponsored or are idiots, but it's pretty nieve to think that people operate ancient software in it's stock format.

[kstrauss]

I suppose that I'm naive; I used Mach3 as supplied by Tormach!

[Bob La Londe]

I suppose that I'm naive; I used Mach3 as supplied by Tormach!

I never used a default xml file from anybody for very long. Mach 3 is amazingly configurable.

[Daniel92563]

I used Mach4 for a couple of months and I have nothing positive to say about it other than the user interface was pretty.

[Flyinfarmer]

Thanks for all the feedback fellas!

[IMT]

I can't imagine doing it the stupid Mach3 way of touching off after every tool change.

Mach3 has a tool table and it works great.

[nitewatchman]

Even when using Mach3 I populated the tool table using a Tool Setting Probe and having the ATC automatically touch off the carousel. Works the same in PP by the way.

[Steve Seebold]

FWIW, I posted some code from Fusion360 using the Tormach post yesterday.

There are not feed rates on every line. Here's a sample

...
S5100 M3 M8
G54
G0 X1.8042 Y-0.9641
G0 Z0.6
G0 Z-0.05
G1 Z-0.1706 F8.
G1 Z-0.2775
G1 X1.8039 Z-0.2803
G1 X1.8029 Z-0.2829
G1 X1.8014 Z-0.2853
G1 X1.7995 Z-0.2873
G1 X1.7971 Y-0.964 Z-0.2888
G1 X1.7944 Z-0.2897
G1 X1.7917 Z-0.29
G1 X1.7792 Y-0.9638 F11.
G3 X1.7665 Y-0.9761 I-0.0002 J-0.0125
G2 X1.7662 Y-0.9818 I-0.0625 J0.0008 F17.
G1 X1.7646 Y-0.9974
G2 X1.7623 Y-1.0086 I-0.0622 J0.0065
....

Fusion's CAM seems to do more small moves than my other CAM for whatever reason, but that's not PP's problem.

Your post looks ok, but why do need a G1 in all the linear moves?

I draw and post in GibbsCam and I only get a G1 in the first line of a linear move. G codes should be moral meaning they stay the same till you tell it something different. Ie. G0, G2, G3 and so on.

[kstrauss]

Gibbs Cam may be wonderful but I can't possibly justify the cost. That said, please explain how the quality of the Gibbs Cam post relative to the Fusion relates to PathPilot.

[shred]

It's not my post, it's the as-supplied Tormach Fusion360 post someone was complaining put feed rates in every line.

[Bob La Londe]

Your post looks ok, but why do need a G1 in all the linear moves?

I draw and post in GibbsCam and I only get a G1 in the first line of a linear move. G codes should be moral meaning they stay the same till you tell it something different. Ie. G0, G2, G3 and so on.

Does Mach 3 not require a movement command on each line? I'll have to try it and find out. Interesting. I've worked with 4 different CAM programs and while they mostly don't pu tout a federate on every line the all put out the command on every line. G0, G1, G2, G83 etc.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Does Mach 3 not require a movement command on each line?

NO, it does not. G0, G1, G2, G3 are "modal" commands that only need to be issued once, and are not cancelled until another modal command is encountered. Any controller that did not handle that would be pretty much useless, and would require a very non-standard POST to generate the code.

That said, who cares? In the '60s, when G-code was first spec'ed. it was important to keep the g-code as concise as possible, as the processors available to do the processing were VERY slow, and VERY memory-constrained (typically a 1MHz 8080 CPU with a few Kbytes of RAM). On a PC, the code can be VERY verbose, and it will make absolutely NO difference whatsoever in the machine performance. My G-code is very verbose, because I want it to be self-documenting, and easy to manually edit should I have to. Here is a tinty sample:

(Baflle Support Plate)


(================================================= ======)
(Job Notes
( Warning - ParkPos is in Machine Coordinates )
( Stock Size: X24.0000 Y7.0000 Z0.5000)
( Setup G54 To Part Mounted in Vise )
( STOCK/BLOCK,0,0,0,0,0,0 )


( CutViewer Setup Definitions: )
( STOCK/BLOCK,24.0000,7.0000,0.5000,0.0000,0.0000,0.0000 )
( FROM/0.0000,0.0000,12.0000 )
(================================================= ======)




(@ToolTable)
(@Tool: 1 1/4 Drill {0.2500}, [101], Max Depth=-0.2251)
(@Tool: 2 1/4 x 5/8 HSS 2-Flute - HSM Roughing 0.25 x 0.05, [300], Max Depth=-0.1250)


(Operation List
( 00:00:34 ZRange: -0.2251, 3.9000, 0.7251 Front Machining\Drill1 1/4 Drill )
( 00:00:36 ZRange: -0.1250, 4.0000, 0.6250 Front Machining\2D Contour1 1/4 x 5/8 HSS 2-Flute - HSM Roughing 0.25 x 0.05 )
( 00:01:10 Total Time )


(Preamble Start)
#100 = [ 400 ] (GlobalSFPM)
#101 = [ 100 ] (GlobalSSO)
#102 = [ 100 ] (GlobalFRO)
#103 = [ 100 ] (OpSSO)
#104 = [ 100 ] (OpFRO)
#105 = [ 0.0000 ] (TCPosX)
#106 = [ 0.0000 ] (TCPosY)
#107 = [ 0.0000 ] (ParkPosX)
#108 = [ 0.0000 ] (ParkPosY)


G90 G94 G17 G54
G20
(TOOL/DRILL,0.125,118.0000,1.000)
(Preamble End)




(Operation 1 Start)
(================================================= ======)
(USR, Drill1, Instance 1)
G54
#103 = [ 100.0000 ] (OpSSO)
#104 = [ 100.0000 ] (OpFRO)




(Toolchange Start)
G53 G00 Z0.0000
G00 X[ #105 ] Y[ #106 ]
G49
M05
M09
(Tool #101, 1/4 Drill)
(TOOL/DRILL,0.2500,118.0000,3.0000)
G43 H1
(USR, Mount Tool #1)
M06 T1
(USR, Drill1, Instance 1)
M03 S[3056*[#100/400.0]*[#101/100.0]*[#103/100.0]] (S3056)
G04 P1.
(Toolchange End)


M09
G00 X1.5000 Y0.5000
G43 Z3.9000 H1
(CUTTING)
Z3.5000
(Drill: 1/4 Drill)
G98 G81 X1.5000 Y0.5000 Z-0.2251 R0.5300 F[18.30*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F18.30)
X11.3110 Y5.3110
X10.6875 Y5.2500
Y6.3750
X11.3110 Y6.6890
X12.6890
X13.3125 Y6.3750
Y5.2500
X12.6890 Y5.3110
Y2.9390
X11.3110
Y1.5610
X12.6890
X22.5000 Y0.5000
G80
(RAPID)
G00 Z3.9000




(Operation 2 Start)
(================================================= ======)
(USR, 2D Contour1, Instance 1)
#103 = [ 100.0000 ] (OpSSO)
#104 = [ 100.0000 ] (OpFRO)




(Toolchange Start)
G53 G00 Z0.0000
G00 X[ #105 ] Y[ #106 ]
G49
M05
M09
(Tool #300, 1/4 x 5/8 HSS 2-Flute - HSM Roughing 0.25 x 0.05)
(TOOL/MILL,0.2500,0.0000,0.6250)
G43 H2
(USR, Un-Mount Tool #1/Mount Tool #2)
M06 T2
(USR, 2D Contour1, Instance 1)
M03 S[5100*[#100/400.0]*[#101/100.0]*[#103/100.0]] (S5100)
G04 P1.
(Toolchange End)


M09
G00 Z4.0000
G00 X13.8435 Y7.3019
G43 H2
Z0.6250
(PLUNGE)
G01 Z0.5394 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
Z-0.1000 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
G01 X13.8433 Y7.3016 Z-0.1039 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8429 Y7.3008 Z-0.1077 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8423 Y7.2994 Z-0.1113 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8413 Y7.2976 Z-0.1147 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8402 Y7.2953 Z-0.1177 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8389 Y7.2927 Z-0.1202 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8374 Y7.2897 Z-0.1223 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8358 Y7.2864 Z-0.1238 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8340 Y7.2830 Z-0.1247 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X13.8323 Y7.2795 Z-0.1250 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
(LEAD IN)
X13.8211 Y7.2571 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
G03 X13.8323 Y7.2236 Z-0.1250 I0.0224 J-0.0112 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
(FINISH CUT)
G01 X24.0559 Y2.1118 F[44.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F44.00)
X24.2795 Y2.0000 F[44.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F44.00)
(LEAD OUT)
G03 X24.3130 Y2.0112 Z-0.1250 I0.0112 J0.0224 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
G01 X24.3242 Y2.0335 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
G01 X24.3260 Y2.0370 Z-0.1247 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3277 Y2.0405 Z-0.1238 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3293 Y2.0437 Z-0.1223 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3308 Y2.0467 Z-0.1202 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3321 Y2.0494 Z-0.1177 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3333 Y2.0516 Z-0.1147 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3342 Y2.0535 Z-0.1113 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3349 Y2.0548 Z-0.1077 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3353 Y2.0556 Z-0.1039 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X24.3354 Y2.0559 Z-0.1000 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
(RAPID)
G00 Z3.5000
X-0.3354
Z0.6250
(PLUNGE)
G01 Z0.5394 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
Z-0.1000 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
G01 X-0.3353 Y2.0556 Z-0.1039 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3349 Y2.0548 Z-0.1077 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3342 Y2.0535 Z-0.1113 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3333 Y2.0516 Z-0.1147 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3321 Y2.0494 Z-0.1177 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3308 Y2.0467 Z-0.1202 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3293 Y2.0437 Z-0.1223 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3277 Y2.0405 Z-0.1238 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3260 Y2.0370 Z-0.1247 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
X-0.3242 Y2.0335 Z-0.1250 F[22.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F22.00)
(LEAD IN)
X-0.3130 Y2.0112 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
G03 X-0.2795 Y2.0000 Z-0.1250 I0.0224 J0.0112 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
(FINISH CUT)
G01 X10.1677 Y7.2236 F[44.00*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F44.00)
(LEAD OUT)
G03 X10.1789 Y7.2571 Z-0.1250 I-0.0112 J0.0224 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
G01 X10.1677 Y7.2795 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
G01 X10.1660 Y7.2830 Z-0.1247 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1643 Y7.2864 Z-0.1238 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1626 Y7.2897 Z-0.1223 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1611 Y7.2927 Z-0.1202 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1598 Y7.2953 Z-0.1177 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1587 Y7.2976 Z-0.1147 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1577 Y7.2994 Z-0.1113 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1571 Y7.3008 Z-0.1077 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1567 Y7.3016 Z-0.1039 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
X10.1565 Y7.3019 Z-0.1000 F[30.80*[#100/400.0]*[#102/100.0]*[#104/100.0]] (F30.80)
(RAPID)
G00 Z4.0000






(Postamble Start)
M09 M05
G49 G54 G90
M05
M09
G53 G00 Z0.0000
G53 G00 X[ #107 ] Y[ #108 ]
M06 T0
(USR, Program Done)
M30




(Program Extents
( X=-0.3354/24.3354)
( Y=0.0000/7.3019)
( Z=-0.2251/4.0000)
(Program End)




Regards,
Ray L.