Feeling chuffed

[Zetopan]

Just under 500kg in weight and with over 290 bhp @9000rpm gives 0-100mph in something like 6.2s - gets your attention!

One can purchase a street legal 2,200KG sedan that equals or slightly exceeds that acceleration and is also *much* quieter
but is likely not of much interest on a racetrack.

[Bob La Londe]

I'm a bit confused by the reaction here. Sure PP works (well not for me yet since mine arrived not working), but there is nothing wrong with Mach 3 if properly configured on a decent quality computer. I have four machines running Mach 3 and ESS offboard motion controllers. I also have one running the same with an older USB-SS, and I can run upto atleast a couple million lines of code on any of them. They have their issues, but as I have been reading so does PathPilot.

Is the reaction I am seeing just brand loyalty or something?

[CL_MotoTech]

Bob, it's standard tribalism. A common theme in society, but also a sad reflection of unbound consumerism manifested in an unabashed hail corporate mentality.

Never fear though, David's car is badass and so is the work he's doing with Mach 3.

[kstrauss]

I used Mach3 without significant issues for two years on my Tormach. That said, PP is prettier than Mach3, Mach3 doesn't support new hardware options such as the Smartcool, the trajectory planner in PP gives smoother movement than Mach3, etc, etc. My response was to counter the impression that using PP might cost $1000. In reality, there is no reason to purchase an overpriced computer from Tormach. All that is required is a junque PC plus a Mesa card and a $20 USB drive and no money for a Mach3 license. Knowing the costs of ownership the user should decide what best meets her needs.

[davidloomes]

Bob & CL_MotoTech,

Thanks for your support. I too was at a loss at the spectacularly -ve reaction. I'd have liked to have thought a newcomer making something pretty on one of the Tormach machines would be welcome and that a different way of driving the machine would be of interest to everyone. It is indeed a sad reflection on society that anything different is cast out without being understood.

[biqut2]

Woooo That sounds good. gsxrs are very popular here in small single seaters and the good ones are faster than us. R1s are less common, but I do know of a couple. They don't hang around either.

If you're used to bike engines and their gearboxes, you might be able to help with the problem we have with the Elite gearbox. Like a number of other car gearboxes (some Sadev and Hewland boxes share it), there's no mechanical stop on the barrel that positively stops it rotating at the end of a shift. There's just a spring detent. If you change quickly enough - and pneumatic cylinders can push pretty quickly - then it's possible to get it to change 2 gears at once. Typically this only happens on downshifts when you let the revs drop a bit, but it's very unwelcome when it happens. what I really need is to meet someone that's good at deigning mechanisms.

David

I don't have direct experience with the problem you are describing as my two cars use an aircraft style push/pull cable to do the shifting and it just works. I guess that's the KISS mentality at work. One is hooked to paddle shifters and the other is on a stick. I'm not one to turn down a challenge though I'd be happy to spend some time looking at the parts involved and see if I see a solution.

[metalmayhem]

David . Is there any chance that you'd be willing to share your mach xml file for the 440 settings ? I'm likely buying 3 of those mills in the next couple weeks and I'd prefer to run mach . I've got 6 mills that run mach flawlessly 12 or so hours a day , so I'd like to keep things the same when it comes to controls that I know and trust . I could figure it out on my own if need be but it would be sweet not to have to fiddle to get mach set up when the mills arrive

[LeeWay]

Its not necessarily Mach 3 that is faulty depending on the version and usage, but the quality of the computer stripping or dedicating that proves most useful to eliminate glitches. I have had two computers on my router that just keep screwing up timing wise and letting Mach freeze for a bit. Just long enough to loose steps. I keep finding things to turn off. This is windows 10 BTW. Something Mach 3 was never designed run in. Honestly if I were you, I would at least try Path Pilot. It actually makes my Novakon Pulsar mill run better than that it did with Mach 3. Sounds better, stronger and smoother. Zero glitches.

[GLCarlson]

... Honestly if I were you, I would at least try Path Pilot. It actually makes my Novakon Pulsar mill run better than that it did with Mach 3. Sounds better, stronger and smoother. Zero glitches.

This is a fair summary of my experience with M3. After several years with M3, no change in hardware, it just started getting buggier and buggier, with no apparent cause and worse, no reliable fix or solid diagnosis of what was happening. And that's why I switched. PP is (so far) without glitches, and my Tormach sounds and seems to run better. For an incremental hundred bucks on a 10-20K machine, it was an easy decision. (I did replace the control computer, too, but that was a case of 15 year old hardware, and it was just time0.

[metalmayhem]

It actually makes my Novakon Pulsar mill run better than that it did with Mach 3. Sounds better, stronger and smoother. Zero glitches.

I run my torus pro and other mills on thin clients and I don't have any problems with mach on xp or win 7 . My shop environment is hard on stuff so I like to run dedicated dumpster grade computers that are a dime a dozen . Plus it's easy to continue running from pp with dumpster computers .
I don't take issue with using pathpilot if it's absolutely necessary but at the same time I'm looking at over 2k extra if I add tormach computers to my purchase . I've run linuxcnc quite a lot of yrs ago on routers that I had , and I actually have it running my lathe so linux isn't the issue , I just like mach .

[davidloomes]

Absolutely no problem at all - see zip file attached..

FWIW, I use an ethernet smooth stepper and I'd advise you to use either that or something similar. I wouldn't trust any computer no matter what operating system to produce step and direction via a parallel port with sufficient accuracy for milling. My computer is an old Toshiba laptop whose LCD died. It's running Windows 10 64 bit on an i5 processor. Mach will likely also work on any 'dumpster' PC, just make sure to do a clean Windows installation to get rid of all the updaters and scanners every software vendor seems to think you want installed nowadays. If you ever manage to get your hands on an original Microsoft retail DVD you'll be amazed at how much more responsive any PC is from that build compared to the polluted junk most oem suppliers bundle.

If you're interested, I have my 440 modified to do spindle reversing - see - and have a Fusion POST modified to expand the canned tapping cycles to take advantage of it. I'll let you know in a couple of weeks if I can do tapping successfully.

David

[LeeWay]

I have an $89 refurb and a mesa card that runs the Novakon.
That was really the only initial cost. No need to spend the bucks on a Tormach controller if you don't want to.That was about $200 bucks or so for better performance out of the machine. Pretty cheap for a better running machine that the controller was actually designed for. Something to be said about the conversational too. far better than the mach wizards. I understand though if you want to stay with Mach. I still have two machines running it as well.

[metalmayhem]

Thanks David , very much appreciated . You have to keep us updated on whether or not you'll be able to tap , that would be awesome . I've got a smooth stepper that I've never connected so I may give it a try . I personally like pp and I've never had any problems with it . As far as holding position , My mills run all week long and I may home in my mills on the x and y once every 1-3 weeks , and I rarely turn off my computers . I run my computers lean and the only program that ever gets installed is my editor

[davidloomes]

Don't doubt PP can hold position for weeks or that Mach3 can do the same. I simply wouldn't choose to use a parallel port if I had another option. If you understand what has to go on inside any computer to ue a parallel port in that way, you'll also understand that it's a truly horrible way to do things and simply invites trouble. A smooth stepper will happily run 6 stppers at double the speed a parallel port can without breaking sweat. It's just a plain better solution. Nowadays there are several other players available any one of which will make a parallel port look like the cheap and nasty solution it is.

I also have Fiusion 360 drawing for a side on din rail mount to put a smooth stepper inside a 440's wiring cabinet and a replacement for the 25 way mounting plate to take a panel mount ethernet connector. I used the drawings to produce 3d printed parts for my mill. If you want to go down that route, speak to me nicely and I might even run off the parts for you.

[metalmayhem]

I'm sure that your right . I haven't tried my smooth stepper yet but my experience with other motion controllers hasn't been very positive at all , which is why I tend to stick with the pp when running mach . I know that sooner or later I'll have to walk away from mach 3 but it's a chore and a hefty bill of it's own considering the amount of equipment I've got .
I know the point of your thread wasn't about software controls , so I won't keep your thread sidetracked from the original topic . I appreciate you posting the xml , Thank you for that

[jwatte]

I know what you say about the old ISA standard parallel port interface. It was a cute hack for the time, but life has moved on, about 30 years ago!
Just because the Mesa card in the PP uses the DB-25 "parallel port" interface, doesn't mean that it has anything to do with the old PC ISA parallel port circuitry.
As far as I can tell, the Mesa card in the PP uses a FPGA and custom drivers to generate the steps. The stepping is smooth, accurate, and never interrupted.
Using an Ethernet cable instead of a DB25 cable is mainly a matter of cable flexibility, cost, bulk, and perhaps distance. It's not a matter of stepping performance between these cards. The cable isn't the limiting factor there; the stepper driver ("amp") and the physical load is!