A better fly cutter?

[kstrauss]

A fly cutter gives a great finish but I’ve never been completely happy with the Tormach Superfly (https://www.tormach.com/store/index....show&ref=33031). It seems expensive for what it is. Also, it is not balanced and vibrates alarmingly when you forget to set the spindle speed to something reasonable. I believe that I have found a solution!

From eBay I purchased a “3/4-FMB22” (shell arbour) and a “KM12 63-22” (63mm, 4 insert, facemill). If you prefer a smaller facemill the two-inch “KM12 50-22” is cheaper. Both take the same SEHT1604 inserts that the Superfly uses and it appears that the angles are identical.. You can use 2 or 4 inserts with perfect balance or a single insert with much less vibration than with the Superly. The flat top of the arbour acts like a TTS holder or you could add a TTS adapter ring.

Prices seem to vary daily but if you are slightly patient you should be able to find both for about us$50-75 including shipping. Just a heads up.

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[John Roberts]

A fly cutter gives a great finish but I’ve never been completely happy with the Tormach Superfly (https://www.tormach.com/store/index....show&ref=33031). It seems expensive for what it is. Also, it is not balanced and vibrates alarmingly when you forget to set the spindle speed to something reasonable. I believe that I have found a solution!

From eBay I purchased a “3/4-FMB22” (shell arbour) and a “KM12 63-22” (63mm, 4 insert, facemill). If you prefer a smaller facemill the two-inch “KM12 50-22” is cheaper. Both take the same SEHT1604 inserts that the Superfly uses and it appears that the angles are identical.. You can use 2 or 4 inserts with perfect balance or a single insert with much less vibration than with the Superly. The flat top of the arbour acts like a TTS holder or you could add a TTS adapter ring.

Prices seem to vary daily but if you are slightly patient you should be able to find both for about us$50-75 including shipping. Just a heads up.

I too have accidently started my 770 with the speed set too high with the Superfly and the whole machine shook. It seems that below 2000 rpm it runs with acceptable imbalance.
I looked on UK ebay and was unable to find the same dia facemill. Please could you pass on seller company details. Many thanks.

John.

[kstrauss]

I ordered https://www.ebay.ca/itm/291765864789 (us$28.61 including shipping) on Feb 18 and it arrived yesterday with Torx key.

The arbour was purchased a year or more ago from "Wui Gui Jun" but search for "C3/4-FMB22" and you'll find several listings. The cheapest current listing appears to be https://www.ebay.ca/itm/EMR-5R-50mm-...s/362177668395 which includes a facemill plus inserts (ca$47.28 including shipping).

[John Roberts]

I ordered https://www.ebay.ca/itm/291765864789 (us$28.61 including shipping) on Feb 18 and it arrived yesterday with Torx key.

The arbour was purchased a year or more ago from "Wui Gui Jun" but search for "C3/4-FMB22" and you'll find several listings. The cheapest current listing appears to be https://www.ebay.ca/itm/EMR-5R-50mm-...s/362177668395 which includes a facemill plus inserts (ca$47.28 including shipping).

Many thanks I have now found one on ebay. I think you made a typo error that through me. The inserts are SEHT1204 not SEHT1604.

Do you have a preference to using 2 inserts or 1 with this face mill cutting aluminium?

Are you able to take a greater depth of cut with 2 inserts fitted?

Do you run the tool at a faster RPM than the Superfly

Does the extra depth of tool affect rigidity.

I also have 770. Appreciate your opinion.

John.

[kstrauss]

Quite right it is SEHT1204 rather than 1604. BTW, has anyone tried SEKT inserts rather than SEHT? Some of the online material claims lower power requirements (https://www.carbideanddiamondtooling...illing.Inserts)

I have only tested things a little but a few initial thoughts:
I usually run my Superfly at 2500 RPM and sense significant vibration. This tool produces a gentle purr at the same RPM.

I only do small prototype parts and mostly use the Superfly to deck off the 1/8-inch used to grip a workpiece with Talon Grips so rapid stock removal is not a concern for me. My usual is a couple of passes at a 0.03 DoC followed by one pass at about 0.005. With such light loading I greatly doubt that the additional stickout will noticeably impact rigidity. Also, consider that the Superfly insert is on the end of a piece of 1/2x1/2 stock supported at one end with a couple of screws and sticking out perhaps an inch; with the facemill the insert is supported by a solid lump of steel. I doubt that my 770 has enough horsepower to effectively use multiple inserts. Plus any errors in making the facemill will probably be apparent when using multiple inserts. That said, I tried it with two inserts and got a mirror finish. More testing is required!

[Bob La Londe]

Glad to see somebody else mention using a facemill. Due to the extra mass it shouldn't vibrate to much from using a single insert as the insert would be a much smaller percentage of the total mass. With a single insert is basically just a really heavy fly cutter, but not as badly balanced. To be fair most hobby and small shop face mill users really aren't getting a great surface finish unless they run at fly cutter feeds anyway. You have to manually measure and index every insert to the same length to take full advantage of the capabilities of a multi insert face mill and get a great finish.

[kstrauss]

You have to manually measure and index every insert to the same length to take full advantage of the capabilities of a multi insert face mill and get a great finish.

Plus there is no easy way to adjust individual inserts for depth.
Perhaps I'm being OCD but I was thinking of grinding off the tip of a dull insert and adding it for almost perfect balance when using the facemill as a flycutter.

[John Roberts]

Quite right it is SEHT1204 rather than 1604. BTW, has anyone tried SEKT inserts rather than SEHT? Some of the online material claims lower power requirements (https://www.carbideanddiamondtooling...illing.Inserts)

I have only tested things a little but a few initial thoughts:
I usually run my Superfly at 2500 RPM and sense significant vibration. This tool produces a gentle purr at the same RPM.

I only do small prototype parts and mostly use the Superfly to deck off the 1/8-inch used to grip a workpiece with Talon Grips so rapid stock removal is not a concern for me. My usual is a couple of passes at a 0.03 DoC followed by one pass at about 0.005. With such light loading I greatly doubt that the additional stickout will noticeably impact rigidity. Also, consider that the Superfly insert is on the end of a piece of 1/2x1/2 stock supported at one end with a couple of screws and sticking out perhaps an inch; with the facemill the insert is supported by a solid lump of steel. I doubt that my 770 has enough horsepower to effectively use multiple inserts. Plus any errors in making the facemill will probably be apparent when using multiple inserts. That said, I tried it with two inserts and got a mirror finish. More testing is required!

0.03" Doc and 0.005" finish pass @ 2000 rpm is about what I do using the Superfly on the 770.

So for you it is more about balance rather than extra performance using the face mill over the Superfly. I will be interested when you have done more testing.

John.

[Bob La Londe]

Plus there is no easy way to adjust individual inserts for depth.
Perhaps I'm being OCD but I was thinking of grinding off the tip of a dull insert and adding it for almost perfect balance when using the facemill as a flycutter.

I watched Adam Booth (is that right?) do it on his You Tube Channel ( Abom79 ) and it was a really touchy feeling measurey and touchy feeling measurey again kind of process.

[kstrauss]

Measuring I understand but how does one adjust the height of the high/low inserts?

[narrobb]

For inserts, just as a reference to go along with the cutter, I am using these inserts for Alu, $3.3 a piece. And for steel: $5.5 a piece. On the SuperFly. Both from same supplier for easy ordering

For some reason, I push these harder than the $15 + shipping ones from Tormach

I tried other brands and slightly cheaper Chinese ones for aluminum but these seems to be the best so far.

Alu: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free...311.0.0.ZS2gV0

Steel: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SEHT...311.0.0.ZS2gV0

[Bob La Londe]

Measuring I understand but how does one adjust the height of the high/low inserts?

There are facemills with adjustable insert pockets, but you can sometimes get some variance in height on a non adjustable facemill just by tensioning the screws differently. In general though you can't get much. Maybe a tenth or 2. For all practical purposes none cheap facemills. It also depends on te insert type and insert holding method of the facemill. If it uses a center screw all you can do is try tensioning the screw. If it has a clamping screw on a simple triangular insert you can actually shim the insert to move it over or down. I don't bother. I just use my face mill for rough leveling a piece of stock.

On an adjustable facemill you can even have multiple cutting inserts and a wiper that makes a finish cut a thousandth or two below and hopefully behind the cutting inserts. Functionally making a roughing cut and a finish cut in one pass.

[syscore]

I use the SuperFly on an 1100 and haven't noticed vibration, but I run it at 2500. Actually, until it starts cutting, you can't even hear it.

[Bob La Londe]

I use the SuperFly on an 1100 and haven't noticed vibration, but I run it at 2500. Actually, until it starts cutting, you can't even hear it.

I bought a SuperFly and I'll find out soon enough. I have mixed feelings about using up a tool slot with it, but some form of facing or surface finishing is required for just about every job. If I don't like is I'll pony up for a proper indexable small facemill. They aren't cheap, but it may be worth it in the long run.

[kstrauss]

I was initially using the flat top of the arbour to locate the holder. There is no recess as on a normal TTS holder and I noticed some variation in tool offset. I had an unused Tormach TTS Tool Conversion Kit #30675 and installed it which should eliminate the inconsistent offset. Note that the 30675 is not currently on the Tormach site and appears to have been replaced by https://www.tormach.com/store/index....show&ref=32432 The older 30675 attaches using epoxy which should be fine when backed against the shoulder on this tool; the newer 32432 uses a much more secure shrink fit on the 3/4-inch shank.

[Bob La Londe]

I was initially using the flat top of the arbour to locate the holder. There is no recess as on a normal TTS holder and I noticed some variation in tool offset. I had an unused Tormach TTS Tool Conversion Kit #30675 and installed it which should eliminate the inconsistent offset. Note that the 30675 is not currently on the Tormach site and appears to have been replaced by https://www.tormach.com/store/index....show&ref=32432 The older 30675 attaches using epoxy which should be fine when backed against the shoulder on this tool; the newer 32432 uses a much more secure shrink fit on the 3/4-inch shank.

That is valuable to know. Very valuable. One of the things I make is low pressure injection molds and gravity casting molds. The vents typically are only .002-.003 deep. A variation in tool height surfacing could result in flashing or no venting.