Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100 - Page 2


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Thread: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Yes, Thanks for update. Following along because who knows when you need to dig into something. I like your temporary stand for the machine. I made a note of that as a safe way to pull my machine and work under the Y axis.



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    Yes, Thanks for update. Following along because who knows when you need to dig into something. I like your temporary stand for the machine. I made a note of that as a safe way to pull my machine and work under the Y axis.
    Thanks. It is a bit overkill, but I feel safe with it on there when I am reaching under the machine.

    A quick update.

    I have been scraping, getting started on the jibs now. Two are bowed really bad and I think I will try some heat and straightening. The other option is making new ones either way, they are bowed that much.

    New balls for the screws are here and I will be putting those back together soon.

    Also, I am getting ready to paint the machine. I was going to post pictures, but CNCzone is giving me an upload failed error when I try to upload pictured right now, I will try again later.



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by mcleodjm View Post
    New balls for the screws are here and I will be putting those back together soon.
    I thought ball screws were replaced as complete assemblies and not serviceable.



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by mcleodjm View Post
    Thanks. It is a bit overkill, but I feel safe with it on there when I am reaching under the machine.

    A quick update.

    I have been scraping, getting started on the jibs now. Two are bowed really bad and I think I will try some heat and straightening. The other option is making new ones either way, they are bowed that much.

    New balls for the screws are here and I will be putting those back together soon.

    Also, I am getting ready to paint the machine. I was going to post pictures, but CNCzone is giving me an upload failed error when I try to upload pictured right now, I will try again later.
    Use Imgur to host pictures



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    I thought ball screws were replaced as complete assemblies and not serviceable.
    It depends on how far gone they are and how they were made, but they are usually serviceable. I have rebuilt some Rexroth screws that were a real pain to reassemble and it was probably not worth it. I am no expert and have rebuilt less than 10 ball screws in my life, but I have had great results.

    There is a ball screw rebuilding section right here on CNCzone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
    Use Imgur to host pictures
    Thanks for the tip, I will look into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Quick reply - Bent gibs seem to be par for the course with many Tormachs. It is not too much of a problem, if they are convex in the middle on the sliding side - this is the case on my latest Tormach as new ex the factory, and may be set this way intentionally, I checked and they flex straight again when adjusted up, without much force required. What matters most is that they fit the gap evenly when snugged in.

    Cliff
    Hi Cliff,

    I don't know about yours, but mine appear to have been scraped in with a cheese grater. Even if they straighten out the surface finish is so bad there are very few bearing points. I would like the gibs to bear on the ways a bit more. I should see some improvement in rigidity.

    Also, If I put my X gib on my surface plate I am not able to push it flat, even if I put my body into it. All of the gibs on my machine look like they have been removed with a punch or screw driver in the past. The ends are filled with marks.

    Here are images of my head casting with the paint removed. I am not taking the filler down, it seems to be bonded well. I will be smoothing/adding filler as necessary, baking at a very low temp for a day to remove moisture from the filler. Then epoxy primer and paint. I am using an Acrylic Urethane enamel that is super resistant to oils/solvents and alcohols and has good resistance vs. acids.

    Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100-20180303_113142-jpg

    Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100-20180303_113148-jpg

    -McLeod



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Yeah, or possibly my machine got an apprentice. The scraping marks can be felt with a finger nail and even with a finger in places. Sorry, trying not to be too negative, but I am really disappointed.

    Here is the Y gib, about 50% scraped in. You can see the center is fairly uniform, that is what I have scraped so far:

    Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100-20180309_221847-jpg

    And here is the X gib, it has had a pass or two, the deep darker areas are the factory scraping:

    Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100-20180309_221855-jpg

    Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100-20180309_221907-jpg

    The X is not really in good shape, not only is it bowed along the length, but it is bowed from top to bottom, dished in at the oil groove that runs along the length of the gib. You can see the lighter color along the top and bottom of the length, that is where it was bearing (in places) on the table.



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    "The X is not really in good shape, not only is it bowed along the length, but it is bowed from top to bottom, dished in at the oil groove that runs along the length of the gib. You can see the lighter color along the top and bottom of the length, that is where it was bearing (in places) on the table."

    It is hard for me to exactly follow what has happened from the photos, but I think you are saying these poor surfaces are not wear, but are the factory saving time on the scraping with rough cuts, and cutting zones of clearance, rather than taking the time to scrap in in a larger area ? Or are you saying the workmanship is just unskilled?

    Either way this is most concerning . Have you had any response or interest on this from Tormach? Can you tell us the model number and year on that machine? Cliff
    Hi Cliff,

    Yes, I was not clear. I am saying two things. First, I drew a quick crude model of the gib in solidworks to show how it is warped/bowed:

    Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100-gib-jpg

    This image is greatly exaggerated of course. Both X and Y are like this. Again, that is quick and crude, I did not take the time to model the true trapezoid shape of the gib.

    I am also saying the factory saved time (on my gibs at least). The (scrapping) cuts are very rough, more along the lines of gouges. Here is a picture to (hopefully) show this:

    Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100-20180310_182817-jpg

    The picture shows what I am talking about better at full resolution/quality vs what the website does to compress it, but I hope you get the idea. I used a heavy coat of layout fluid and ran it over a sanding block when dry. Dark spots are deep cuts and bare metal are high spots. You will see "high" spots along the edges, again, see the picture above. But you might be able to make out very dark red and lighter red areas. That shows really deep scrape marks. I will see if I can figure out a way to get a better picture.

    I am not sure if the factory is cutting clearance zones or the work on my gibs was just unskilled, but I would guess unskilled. I suspect the way the gibs are warped/bowed is at least partially due to stresses being relieved buy someone using a punch to remove the gibs in the past. I don't think that would have been done by Tormach or at the factory.

    It could also be from the oil grooves being cut after the scraping, either way the quality of scraping leaves a lot to be desired.

    I have not contacted Tormach. I don't expect them to provide any support on an 11 year old machine. This is an 1100. SN 32X and the DOM is 2007. This machine had a bad control board when I got it and Tormach went above and beyond to help me out with that problem. (Thanks Jennifer @ Tormach!!!!!)

    Cheers

    Last edited by mcleodjm; 03-11-2018 at 01:23 AM.


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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    I agree Tormach do not have any warranty to cover. But they have about 5 staff checking QC at the factory and I assume they would want to know if the system is not working.

    I agree Tormach USA service and support is excellent - they recently send me a replacement driver without hesitation. It is at the factory end that we are concerned about here.

    Of course 2007 was a long time ago and the issue hopefully is well sorted now... What confuses me is I have a 2007 1100 and it is built better than my recent 1100 made about 2015?

    Cliff
    Hi Cliff,

    I saw your new video and left a comment. That is quite amazing they sent you a new driver after it had been so long since you had purchased. Their customer support is the number one reason to purchase a Tormach in my opinion.

    In regards to your 2007 model being better than your 2015: perhaps my gibs were scraped by an apprentice and missed by QC. Or maybe the PO had a go at them, possible, but from my take on the previous owner I would doubt it. Also, by the amount of corrosion on the gibs in the deep cuts I would also doubt it was anything but factory. But it is possible as it looks like the gibs have been moved prior to me.

    It could be that they were scraped "enough" and I am taking it too far. Wouldn't be the first time, but I figure I might as well while I have it apart.

    Too bad about your 2015, what was worse about it? If you mentioned in a video I forgot. Thanks,

    -mcleod



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Hi Cliff,

    RE: Not posting a public video.
    I understand. I own a (very) small engineering business and would not be happy if someone was posting really negative videos on Youtube. On the other hand perhaps they could raise the price a few hundred $ and justify it that way? I have no idea, maybe it would cost $1k more to produce the 1100 the same way as 10 years ago. $200-300 may not make a big difference on their target market but $1k may. I am sure they did the best they could.

    I will post some updates later in the week as I make more progress.

    -Cheers



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    Default Re: Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

    Hi mcleodjm. What an irony of fate. I had similar findings when I was inspecting my PCNC 1100 first time. The only difference was that my machine was BRAND NEW (2016 - it was about 2 years ago) shipped directly from Tormach factory. See my older posts for details if you like. Oiling issue - caused by not finished (not drilled through) oil passage in the machine casting, so ZERO oil on one of the slideways. Gib issue - quite innovative geometry , when the one side was perfectly flat the opposite one was quite noticeably convex. You can imagine how bad it was affecting the backlash and the table slop, like a baby cradle. Scrapping quality - well ...carefree creativity of a Chinese folk artist, just why he used kitchen fork instead of proper scrapping tools? Why am I writing this? You do not have such bad luck. You could end up with a similar "machine" just paying the full price. Good luck, hope you will sort out all these issues!



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Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100

Anatomy of a 10+ year old PCNC 1100