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  1. #41
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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    I think the tubes will be too heavy. I have the 440 with enclosure, and the sheet metal alone is enough to slightly bow the pan such that it has a taller island in the middle, making coolant pool along the edges, which is bad for the center-mounted drain. (It's not much, but noticeable)

    The standard enclosure is sheet metal with breaks along the edges, that you screw together, and a butylene tape along the bottom for sealing. Plus lexan doors and side windows. The front doors are large, which is a must; the side windows can open, which I've used a little bit, but could maybe live without. (But I prefer to have them.)
    Also note that the top is covered to avoid chips/coolant to fly out, but there are cut-outs for the necessary hinges and handles and ATC and PDB intrusions into the up/down movement.

    If you made yours from 50mm L 1/16" aluminum profile, you might get a lower weight.
    If I remember, I'll measure the pan tonight and post back.

    Hah, after reading all that, I realized you're talking about the stand, not the enclosure. Steel tubing should be fine, assuming you can make it flat. You might want adjustable feet to level everything.
    LOL ! I was reading along and trying to figure out how the enclosure relates to my stand project, until I got to the last sentence !

    I was picturing 3mm (1/8 in) square tubing... would this be overkill ? I could go down 2mm (5/64 in ?).

    However my biggest concern is getting the dimensions right. Specially hole spacing for bolting the chip pan and mill on top; and overall dimensions (length width and height) of the stand to make it stable.

    I'd like to get the stand built as soon as I place an order for the mill so I can assembly as soon as it arrives.



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    The factory stand screws the mill into metal blocks that are tied to the sheet metal top of the stand, and L profiles running under them, but those L profiles are just screwed into the sheet metal, too; they don't rigidly attach to the frame of the stand.
    The sheet metal feels like perhaps 10 or 12 gauge to me, so if you weld crossmembers and they are 2mm wall thickness tubes, that should be plenty compared to the factory stand.
    The thing you might want is to put pillow blocks on top of the stand to match the pillow blocks on the mill, and weld or at least braze them to the crossmembers of your stand.
    Then you need to somehow grind those four pillow blocks to be flat and level with each other. Or get lots of shim stock and patience to get a good fit with the mill!

    Btw, the holes through the pillow blocks are wider diameter than the M12(?) bolts it uses, presumably to give some slop for actual mounting, because it's a real chore to get the mill perfectly aligned on the holes. You probably want to copy this design feature!



  3. #43
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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    The factory stand screws the mill into metal blocks that are tied to the sheet metal top of the stand, and L profiles running under them, but those L profiles are just screwed into the sheet metal, too; they don't rigidly attach to the frame of the stand.
    The sheet metal feels like perhaps 10 or 12 gauge to me, so if you weld crossmembers and they are 2mm wall thickness tubes, that should be plenty compared to the factory stand.
    The thing you might want is to put pillow blocks on top of the stand to match the pillow blocks on the mill, and weld or at least braze them to the crossmembers of your stand.
    Then you need to somehow grind those four pillow blocks to be flat and level with each other. Or get lots of shim stock and patience to get a good fit with the mill!

    Btw, the holes through the pillow blocks are wider diameter than the M12(?) bolts it uses, presumably to give some slop for actual mounting, because it's a real chore to get the mill perfectly aligned on the holes. You probably want to copy this design feature!
    Thanks ! Appreciate your feedback.

    I planned to mount the blocks on top of the cross sections of the stand. From unboxing and assembly videos I've noticed that the blocks go below the chip pan, so I guess that's enough clearance.
    Regarding the holes, I made them 16mm diameter. That should give the play you mention for adjustments. Shimming is a good idea, as I don´t think I´ll find anywhere nearby a shop that can machine the surface for perfect leveling.

    My concern is hole pattern, but I guess I could hold welding and drilling both crossbars until the machine is here. Is also the footprint stable enough (20 x 27 inches at the base) ?



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Now that I think about it, some updates:
    The reason the pillows sit on un-anchored members that bolt to the sheet metal might be that the sheet metal gives enough play that grinding flat and level isn't needed! When you have rigidly attached members, that won't work, so double down on the shimming.
    The stand sheet metal is much thinner than 10-12ga -- I think the pan might be 10ga, and that's where I got that from. Are you getting the stock pan?
    The pan has blocks on top and bottom, and the mill has blocks on bottom, and the stand has blocks on top.
    You will need sufficient clearance between the pan and the stand to run the flood cooling pan and hose out, because the pan/hose is mounted right in front of the mill (not on the side like on the 1100)
    If I remember when I get home (haven't remembered yet!) I can measure the footprint of the stand, and the approximate dimensions of the pillows.



  5. #45
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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    Now that I think about it, some updates:
    The reason the pillows sit on un-anchored members that bolt to the sheet metal might be that the sheet metal gives enough play that grinding flat and level isn't needed! When you have rigidly attached members, that won't work, so double down on the shimming.
    The stand sheet metal is much thinner than 10-12ga -- I think the pan might be 10ga, and that's where I got that from. Are you getting the stock pan?
    The pan has blocks on top and bottom, and the mill has blocks on bottom, and the stand has blocks on top.
    You will need sufficient clearance between the pan and the stand to run the flood cooling pan and hose out, because the pan/hose is mounted right in front of the mill (not on the side like on the 1100)
    If I remember when I get home (haven't remembered yet!) I can measure the footprint of the stand, and the approximate dimensions of the pillows.
    I am actually getting the stock chip pan. Thought about building one, but there seems to be consensus about it being a good investment (buying from Tormach).
    I'd really apprecite if you could provide me with those dimensions ! Thanks in advance !



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    The outer is 12.75"Wx16.75"D (+/-0.1")
    The inner is 7.75"Wx11.75"D (+/-0.1")
    The spacing between top of cabinet and bottom of pan is 1.8"H (+/- 0.1") divided into two blocks; top-of-stand and bottom-of-pan. I'd eyeball the bottom block (part of the stand) to 1" tall and the top block (bottom of pan) at 0.75".
    This would make the bolt pattern 10.25"Wx14.25"D on 2.5"x2.5" blocks with holes in the centers.
    I can't actually see that the holes are in the centers, that's from recollection!

    I found this drawing, which says 10.2 x 14.2, so I think I'm not far off!
    https://www.tormach.com/uploads/1020...sions-PDF.html

    This picture shows the blocks, and also how the flood coolant comes out from the front, towards the back. (I have a couple of wood sticks to straighten the hose so I don't get trapped coolant.)

    DIY Tormach Stand-pcnc-440-blocks-jpg



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    The outer is 12.75"Wx16.75"D (+/-0.1")
    The inner is 7.75"Wx11.75"D (+/-0.1")
    The spacing between top of cabinet and bottom of pan is 1.8"H (+/- 0.1") divided into two blocks; top-of-stand and bottom-of-pan. I'd eyeball the bottom block (part of the stand) to 1" tall and the top block (bottom of pan) at 0.75".
    This would make the bolt pattern 10.25"Wx14.25"D on 2.5"x2.5" blocks with holes in the centers.
    I can't actually see that the holes are in the centers, that's from recollection!

    I found this drawing, which says 10.2 x 14.2, so I think I'm not far off!
    https://www.tormach.com/uploads/1020...sions-PDF.html

    This picture shows the blocks, and also how the flood coolant comes out from the front, towards the back. (I have a couple of wood sticks to straighten the hose so I don't get trapped coolant.)

    DIY Tormach Stand-pcnc-440-blocks-jpg
    Just to be sure, I assume you´re providing the following dimensions, correct ? Also, what's the distance from the floor to the top of stand ? Thanks for the info !

    DIY Tormach Stand-layout-blocks-jpg



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Yes, that is correct! Note that the front of the mill is to the right in your drawing -- the footprint is narrow and deep.
    I'll see if I can remember to measure the height tonight.



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    Yes, that is correct! Note that the front of the mill is to the right in your drawing -- the footprint is narrow and deep.
    I'll see if I can remember to measure the height tonight.
    Roger That ! Thanks for pointing that out



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    My pan bottom is about 34" above the floor. Note that this is the pan bottom; the coolant chip trap and the bolt blocks stick "down" from this a little bit.
    Also, my floor is uneven (old concrete, trees outside) so the different lets are adjusted differently until the mill is level. There's what looks like a good 3-4" of possible adjustment on the factory stand, and I use a lot of it!

    Now, please post pictures of your stand when it's done :-)



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    OK. PCNC 440 ordered today. So let the games begin !

    PS: Was told by Tormach rep this is the first PCNC440 ever shipped to Chile



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Oh, wow, that's pretty far :-) I think you'll enjoy it!



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Hi all ! What do you think about this stand I found locally for a very reasonable price (USD 183), to put the PCNC 440 on top (with chip pan, no enclosure) ?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/142288536450?ul_noapp=true

    It seems to be 1/16th steel, and I plan to either reinforce the top shelf with a couple of sturdier beams, or otherwise cut a steel plate the size of the whole top shelf (1/2 in maybe ?).

    What concerns me are the casters, that may make it unstable since it's going to be top heavy; so a possibility is not using them at all, and sit the trolly on the floor.



  14. #54

    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    The 440 weights about 450 lbs and I cant find the weight rating on the cart so that has me a little concerned. On a different web site it said this cart fully assembled weights about 60lbs so that is reassuring in that this is made from some fairly thick steel. Probably putting a more solid top and triangulating the back for stiffness will probably make it workable.

    I would also possibly consider a toolbox as a base perhaps something like this:

    https://www.harborfreight.com/tool-s...net-64433.html

    Its rated for 1000lbs, is fairly cheap and has good storage? Not sure if it is big enough as I don't have the 440 solid model to check but some food for though.



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Thanks for your feedback ! I'd love to get the one you suggest, however I live pretty far south in the world so shipping alone would cost more than the cart itself !

    The one I'm asking about looks pretty decent, IIRC the thickness of the "L" frame that makes the legs is 1/16th inch thick. When I pushed my 190 pounds of human being on the top shelf it didn't budge, so it looked OK for that kind of weight. Now, 450 lbs is more than twice though...

    My alternative is to have one built according to a blueprint I posted earlier, using 2 in square steel pipe for about USD 100.



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Cvitanic View Post
    My alternative is to have one built according to a blueprint I posted earlier, using 2 in square steel pipe for about USD 100.
    Is that price including material? (Seems awful cheap if so.)
    I built a stand similar to your drawing for a slightly larger (~600 lb I think) mill and it's quite solid. Only wobbles are from the cheap leveling foot casters I used. I did mine 23" square, I think around 2' tall, with 2" 1/8" wall square tube with a 1/2" plate for the top (all scrap I had,) but added small 45 deg gussets on all the inside vertical corners.
    2mm wall would probably be plenty for most of the structure, except possibly for the 2 long top cross pieces, those might sag just a little.



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by skrubol View Post
    Is that price including material? (Seems awful cheap if so.)
    I built a stand similar to your drawing for a slightly larger (~600 lb I think) mill and it's quite solid. Only wobbles are from the cheap leveling foot casters I used. I did mine 23" square, I think around 2' tall, with 2" 1/8" wall square tube with a 1/2" plate for the top (all scrap I had,) but added small 45 deg gussets on all the inside vertical corners.
    2mm wall would probably be plenty for most of the structure, except possibly for the 2 long top cross pieces, those might sag just a little.
    Thanks for your feedback !

    It´s a welder friend of my brother´s who´ll charge just about USD 60 for labour, and if my calculations are right, a single bar of 20' is plenty steel (roughly another USD 30).
    I think I'll have it made with 3mm thick all around, for peace of mind.

    Regards !



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by Cvitanic View Post
    Thanks for your feedback !

    It´s a welder friend of my brother´s who´ll charge just about USD 60 for labour, and if my calculations are right, a single bar of 20' is plenty steel (roughly another USD 30).
    I think I'll have it made with 3mm thick all around, for peace of mind.

    Regards !
    Wow, either steel is a lot cheaper there or I'm getting quotes at the wrong place. If you can buy by the uncut 20' it's probably cheaper to go with all 3mm rather than mixing, and easier to weld to boot.



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    Default

    It might work, especially if you use mist instead of flood cooling.

    I'd be a little worried about load rating of the cart, mainly because the connectors seem to just be a couple of rivets?

    Mill plus steel plate plus work and workholding could get to maybe 600 pounds?

    Are you getting this to make parts for the local economy, or mainly for fun?



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    Default Re: DIY Tormach Stand

    Quote Originally Posted by jwatte View Post
    It might work, especially if you use mist instead of flood cooling.

    I'd be a little worried about load rating of the cart, mainly because the connectors seem to just be a couple of rivets?

    Mill plus steel plate plus work and workholding could get to maybe 600 pounds?

    Are you getting this to make parts for the local economy, or mainly for fun?
    For fun, for prototyping, as an upgrow from 3D printing, but mainly introducing CNC machining to my area. AFAIK there are only CNC lathes around (just two of them) so this would be the first CNC mill available in a radius of over 1000 miles. I see it as an opportunity to evaluate the need for this kind of service, sort of in a "Lean Startup" way (Fail soon, Fail cheap).



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