is the tormach conversational?

[ruawake]

does any one know if you can use a tormach thru some conversational controls?

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[TXFred]

There are some wizards in Mach that come close, but they only do basic jobs like creating circular pockets, facing a part, etc. And because they're written by a bunch of different users, they don't share an interface, scheme, or style.

They're useful, but I would not rely on them on a regular basis. They're too clunky and too limited.

Frederic

[ruawake]

thanks txfred for the info..just seems like a daunting task to learn bobcad and bobcam just to make some simple parts

RUawake

[kevinro]

thanks txfred for the info..just seems like a daunting task to learn bobcad and bobcam just to make some simple parts

RUawake

There is one wizard called NewFangled in the list that actually is pretty reasonable to work with. The interface across modules is fairly uniform, and the output from the modules are combined into a single program. For example, you can cut a pocket, drill several holes, and face the part by running each module in sequence, then saving the entire program.

It is not as nice as other conversational interfaces I have seen on more expensive machines. However, it is usable for me. I think it cost $50 or something along those lines.

Newfangled Solutions LLC - Mach3 Addons for Mill

Kevin

[philbur]

Have a look here:

Newfangled Solutions LLC - Mach3 Addons for Mill

Phil

[neilw20]

I've used one of the teach mode wizards (can't remember which one) in Mach3 to trace a fairly complex shape and it worked well.
After tracing the shape with a pointer I manually added compensation for cutter width with G41/G42. (two extra lines)

[BlueChip]

KipwareM is conversational ... and compatible for Mach3 and Tormach ... and includeas a conversational CAD/CAM SketchPad.

Info : KipwareM Conversational CNC Programming Software for CNC Milling

[JohnToner]

Ruawake,

I'm very new to CNC. Some six years ago I took a set-up course at a local J.C., nothing since then. My first subsequent contact was when I got my 1100 about two months ago. Due to health issues and a heavy work schedule, I can't get in more than 8 or 10 hours per week on the machine. A rather nasty surgery Thursday of this week will keep me off the machine for three more weeks. I can't, for love or money, get a grasp of CAD or CAM. However, "G" code and related instructions are very straight forward, easy to learn, and provide the additional benefit of providing you with a much greater understanding of your part-program. Programing for most 2 1/2 D parts is pretty straight forward. I've made some decent parts using nothing more than G00, G1,2, and 3, G17, G28, G40, 41, 42, 43, and 44, G54, G80, 81, 82, and 83, G90 and 91, along with a few needed M, N, O , F, and S words whose needs will be self-evident. While the list, plus a few commands I've not listed, may, at first glance, seem daunting, they are actually quite easy to employ. Even an old dog such as I can learn a few new tricks, and I'm not even a real machinist - just a hack who machines for fun and relaxation. I've managed to make some useful parts and at present I'm coding an AR lower.

One helpful technique has been to test my code with EZ Wizard's simulator, followed by "air machining", then some scrap wood (machinists wax would be better), and finally, I cut metal. My "CAD" program is a $2.00, 8 1/2"x11" pad of graph paper, a compass, protractor, straight edge, mechanical pencil, and an art gum eraser. Total cost less than $15.00, and it never crashes or requires updating.

I hope this will help. If it seems more like mindless babel, chalk it off to Vicodin and groin surgery (ouch!!).

John

[neilw20]

Really, learning some G code, and experimenting is well worth it.
Set the dwell to a position well above the job or leave no cutter in machine and cut some air for a while. Conversational will be much more learning to do.
A little basics first will go a long way.
Read on.. and read the Mach3 manual - section 10 is a good start. 36 pages worth skimming over to get the feel of it.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

[nitewatchman]

I have regular conversations with my machine but it ignores me and never answers.

It does seem to get testy when I talk about it's mother's possible canine background.

nitewatchman

[kevinro]

KipwareM is conversational ... and compatible for Mach3 and Tormach ... and includeas a conversational CAD/CAM SketchPad.

Info : KipwareM Conversational CNC Programming Software for CNC Milling

I stared at this once. It looks interesting, but there is no demo version. I am not willing to plunk down $500 for software that I have never seen. It also seems pretty expensive given that it appears to do the same steps as NewFangled. I am hopeful it has more features, but that is a $500 assumption I am not willing to make.

They offer a demo online if you make an appointment. I would much rather spend time with it myself. Or at least be able to look through the manual or help file online so I can evaluate if it is something worth buying.

All of the screen shots on their website are low resolution, and not useful in terms of looking at specifics. I wish they would at least put the manual online.

Kevin

[BlueChip]

Did you watch the video available from the webpage?
KipwareM Conversational CNC Programming Software For Milling - YouTube

[kevinro]

Did you watch the video available from the webpage?
KipwareM Conversational CNC Programming Software For Milling - YouTube

Yes I did. It shows very little detail other than telling me they want to stop the CAD/CAM overkill and features include "and so much more!!!". What more?

It does show some very nice features, like being able to save operations and recall them later. Like that. The ability to preview the operations. Like that. It looks like a nice program.

However, I don't know what parameter values they allow in the operations. I don't know what the resulting code is like. I don't know if the interface is klunky or not. I don't know if it crashes on my machine when I run it. Is it stable? Can I import or export data? Can I import, for example, a list of drill points for a multi hole pattern? Can I ramp instead of plunge on any operation? Does it really work with Mach3?

I would want to play with it or read about it before spending $500. Most software these days have demo versions, especially expensive ones. Nearly all reputable software companies put their manuals/help systems online.

I am also unclear on the pricing scheme. There are about 500 variations on combinations of software. Are any of these useful? No idea, never heard of them, can't try them, too much work to figure it out. The subscription version is least expensive up front, but will be paying for it for years. To get the equivalent KipwareM package as a subscription, it appears to be $375 a year (totalled up the options). Not a good value since it expires in 365 days, or it will cost me $750 for two years.

So I am down to paying $495 for software I can't try and can't evaluate if I really want or not vs a $50 program from NewFangled that I can at least download the manual for and play around with. If I don't like NewFangled, at least I am only out $50.

Support is a worse story. Support is not free. If there is a bug in the program, they charge $35 to talk to product support, paid in advance.

From their website:

Kentech Inc.Support

Heaven forbid your machine should lose a hard drive, you will have to purchase an upgrade version!

"Lost Installs and Lost Activation Codes

Customers are responsible to maintain a copy of all installation files, whether the software was delivered via CD or via a download. Users are encouraged to review the installation manual carefully when they receive their software.
Please remember when replacing an old computer that has the Kipware software on it you must REMOVE the LICENSE in order to be able to receive a new activiation code to install it on a new computer. This is part of our software license protection system. If customers do not REMOVE the LICENSE and submit the REMOVAL CODE, they may be required to purchase an upgrade or an additional seat for their software package.

◦Lost Installs---Product Upgrade Charges will Apply
◦Revised Activation Codes(when no REMOVAL CODE is available)--- Additional Seat Charges will Apply"

Kevin

[BlueChip]

"I stared at this once. It looks interesting ... "

Going through a lot of effort to degrade something with which you don't have any experience ... sounds like a personal vendetta.

[neilw20]

I think it is an astute potential customer, showing due diligence for his $$$s and license concerns.
Sometimes it becomes just too hard to BUY something, no strings attached.
Good value, maybe, but with timebombs (hard drive fails !! - was it the hard drive that got the license?) attached.

[kevinro]

"I stared at this once. It looks interesting ... "

Going through a lot of effort to degrade something with which you don't have any experience ... sounds like a personal vendetta.

No vendetta at all. Until a week ago, I had never heard of Kipware. I have no relationship with them at all.

Just putting out the results of my research. Unfortunately for kentechinc.com, the information they are putting out sent me in a specific direction. I am very happy to go either way.

I am actually quite interested in something better than NewFangled because I work with high school students who could use an easier way to work with my Tormach. NewFangled 2.86 has some really funky aspects to it. For example: The depth parameter in the surfacing operation is different than the depth parameter in all other functions.

I find that if post my research somewhere, someone connected to the company will usually take some sort of notice. For example: I actually got a phone call from a senior vice president at Motorola about 12 years ago that resulted in their changing drastically the way they market embedded controllers by making DigiKey and Mouser into authorized vendors. (Designing a new controller board is the article I wrote)

If you want to put a manual, demo version, or something else that is useful on the website, I will hopefully tell you the 100 things I really like about the program.

No such information is publicly available at the moment. Really the only thing useful to read on the site was the pricing and the support policy. The user forum is pretty stagnant (KipwareM has exactly zero posts). The blog has one post that is sort of useful, the rest is just marketing posts.

The only information they have provided are reasons for me to be wary. The video looked very nice, but didn't provide me with enough detail to feel like buying $500 worth of stuff. I have a shelf full of mediocre yet expensive software going back 20 years.

[ruawake]

JohnToner,
Thanks for sharing some very useful information. Often the simple ways are the best.
I wish the programmers for the cad cam programs would put more thought into their interface they are producing, it could be so much easier to use.
when flatbed color scanners were around 5,000. , we bought a b/w panasonic video camera for about 100. and used a color wheel(r,g,b), and did 3 separate video captures thru the color wheel, and used some cheap software to create a 4096 bit color scan, in hold and modify mode.
i wish it could be that easy to create a cheap 3d scanner.
thanks again,

RUawake

[ger21]

A new standalone version of the Newfangled wizards should be out very soon.

[ruawake]

need to get thru a 39 inch wide door to first floor, anyone have the dimensions of the machine out of the shipping crates?
Thanks for any and all information you guys have shared with me..

jon

[SquibLoad]

A new standalone version of the Newfangled wizards should be out very soon.

OK, now you've done it! You've piqued our curiosity.

I've gotten great use from the current NFWs and I would image a new version would only enhance that.. tell us more, please!