Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

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    Member twodeuce's Avatar
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    Default Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    Hi Everyone,

    I run a small cabinet shop and recently purchased a 4x8 CNC router from China (you might have heard a similar tale as the one I'm about to tell before).
    It has a lot of quality parts on it. Hiwin rails. Yaskawa servo motors. Run by a Syntec 6MB contoller. It's also a heavy beast at over 4,000lbs.
    My issue is, if I slow my cuts down to 60 inches per minute, it cuts "ok". I usually use 1/4 inch spiral carbide bits that feed/speed charts say should run upwards of 180 IPMs. When I run it that high, the cuts are terrible. A 1 inch circle cut in MDF at .0125" deep per pass looks like a choppy oval. I use Aspire as my software program and the machine runs on simple G code.

    The biggest thing I see is when it gets to turning a 90 corner, the Y axis always over travels a bit. Even at 160 IPM it can overtravel by .025"
    My suspicions are the servos are not in tune, but that's a WAG.
    I took the covers off and the belts all some tensioned well enough and the gears are making good contact.

    My question is, does anyone do support/consulting work on machines like this? It's a pretty simple setup for someone that knows CNC really well. The support from the manufacturer is zero. I've got no where else to turn as I've got little spare time.

    I appreciate any direction you could point me. I'm a paying customer. Just need to get this machine straightened out so I can get back to work.

    Thanks!

    Brandon

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    Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    Where are you located? It's possible there is someone local to you.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Member twodeuce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    I'm in the Kansas City area.



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    Quote Originally Posted by twodeuce View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I run a small cabinet shop and recently purchased a 4x8 CNC router from China (you might have heard a similar tale as the one I'm about to tell before).
    It has a lot of quality parts on it. Hiwin rails. Yaskawa servo motors. Run by a Syntec 6MB contoller. It's also a heavy beast at over 4,000lbs.
    My issue is, if I slow my cuts down to 60 inches per minute, it cuts "ok". I usually use 1/4 inch spiral carbide bits that feed/speed charts say should run upwards of 180 IPMs. When I run it that high, the cuts are terrible. A 1 inch circle cut in MDF at .0125" deep per pass looks like a choppy oval. I use Aspire as my software program and the machine runs on simple G code.

    The biggest thing I see is when it gets to turning a 90 corner, the Y axis always over travels a bit. Even at 160 IPM it can overtravel by .025"
    My suspicions are the servos are not in tune, but that's a WAG.
    I took the covers off and the belts all some tensioned well enough and the gears are making good contact.

    My question is, does anyone do support/consulting work on machines like this? It's a pretty simple setup for someone that knows CNC really well. The support from the manufacturer is zero. I've got no where else to turn as I've got little spare time.

    I appreciate any direction you could point me. I'm a paying customer. Just need to get this machine straightened out so I can get back to work.

    Thanks!

    Brandon
    Hi Brandon, maybe I can help you. FOR FREE.
    I need to know some information.
    What are your spindle and VFD specifications?
    What are the models of your servo motors? X axis and Y axis.
    Could you show me your cutting pics?



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    Member twodeuce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCINDUSTRY View Post
    Hi Brandon, maybe I can help you. FOR FREE.
    I need to know some information.
    What are your spindle and VFD specifications?
    What are the models of your servo motors? X axis and Y axis.
    Could you show me your cutting pics?
    Wow, thank you!
    I included a couple of photos that show the cuts at 120 IPM with 1/4 upcut spircal carbide bit. It gets much worse the faster I go.
    The spindle is HSK (Photo attached).
    X and y axis motors are same - SGM7G-09AFC61 (photo attached).

    Hope this answers your questions. Please let me know if there is anything else you need.

    Brandon

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support-circles-jpg   Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support-120-ipm-rough-corner-jpg   Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support-spindle-upclose-specs-1-jpg   Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support-servo-side-jpg  

    Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support-yaskawa-servo-jpg   Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support-overtravel-corner-jpg  


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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    What control system are you running? It also looks like the machine has never been set up or adjusted. Spindle Hp and max speed?

    So this is your controller > https://www.cnczone.com/forums/chine...50812-cnc.html

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router Mach4 Kimber 1911 45ACP


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    Member twodeuce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    What control system are you running? It also looks like the machine has never been set up or adjusted. Spindle Hp and max speed?

    So this is your controller > https://www.cnczone.com/forums/chine...50812-cnc.html
    Yes, that's my Controller. I looked through that thread without anything specific to my issue really.

    It runs on simple G code.
    It came setup, but has never been adjusted. Hence my issue.
    Spindle specs are in the picture above, but it is 4.08 HP and 18,000 RPM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by twodeuce View Post
    Wow, thank you!
    I included a couple of photos that show the cuts at 120 IPM with 1/4 upcut spircal carbide bit. It gets much worse the faster I go.
    The spindle is HSK (Photo attached).
    X and y axis motors are same - SGM7G-09AFC61 (photo attached).

    Hope this answers your questions. Please let me know if there is anything else you need.

    Brandon
    Hi Brandon, I saw you pictures. They both are spindles'. Well, It doesn't matter. I bet your servo drive is SGD7S-7R6A00A.

    I just need some pictures of your abnormal cutting work pieces. According to your description, the phenomenon is motor overshoot.

    There are some reasons will cause this problem. Such as rigidity is too low; the inertia ratio is not adequate and so on.
    I need you to check one thing. Power on your machine, servo on your motors but don't run any programs. Push and pull the CNC table along X direction and then Y directon serval times. See if you can move the table or not. Tell me the result.

    What's more, you'd better prepare a communication cable of mini USB, which is used for adjusting the drive performance in case. And you need to download the tuning softerware of sigmawin+.
    Servo system is much more complicated than stepper system. We need some more patience.



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    Member twodeuce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCINDUSTRY View Post
    Hi Brandon, I saw you pictures. They both are spindles'. Well, It doesn't matter. I bet your servo drive is SGD7S-7R6A00A.

    I just need some pictures of your abnormal cutting work pieces. According to your description, the phenomenon is motor overshoot.

    There are some reasons will cause this problem. Such as rigidity is too low; the inertia ratio is not adequate and so on.
    I need you to check one thing. Power on your machine, servo on your motors but don't run any programs. Push and pull the CNC table along X direction and then Y directon serval times. See if you can move the table or not. Tell me the result.

    What's more, you'd better prepare a communication cable of mini USB, which is used for adjusting the drive performance in case. And you need to download the tuning softerware of sigmawin+.
    Servo system is much more complicated than stepper system. We need some more patience.

    I will try tomorrow morning. I downloaded the software and I'll grab a mini USB.

    Thank you!


    Brandon



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    Quote Originally Posted by twodeuce View Post
    I will try tomorrow morning. I downloaded the software and I'll grab a mini USB.

    Thank you!


    Brandon
    You are welcome Brandon. How are things going? What is the result of pushing and pulling the working table when servo-on?



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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    It might help to do the push/pull test with a dial indicator on the table to see just how far it moves; also - just for repeatability - you might hang something off the table via a rigged-up pulley or roller or something (the idea being to apply consistent force as you are testing & tuning).

    Because you say you already checked it mechanically, I suspect that you will find that the following error at those speeds is something astronomical... and the servo drives' PID loops are turned up just barely enough to make it move.



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    Default Re: Looking for a CNC Router "consultant" for support

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCINDUSTRY View Post
    You are welcome Brandon. How are things going? What is the result of pushing and pulling the working table when servo-on?
    Looks like this might be the culprit. I rechecked all the gears and belts on the y axis. When the machine is on, the right side servo (as I'm looking at it from the front of the machine) is rock solid. The left side has considerable play in it 1/16" plus forward and back. When I move it back and forth, the gears are engaged and moving, the belt moves, so it seems the servo is letting it move.



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