My new TAIG and enclosure...also flood cooling ?'s


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Thread: My new TAIG and enclosure...also flood cooling ?'s

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    Default My new TAIG and enclosure...also flood cooling ?'s

    Hi, I just wanted to share some pictures of my new TAIG mill and the enclosure that I built for it.

    This enclosure is built using the 8020 product. From the outset I intended to go with a flood cooling system. Since the room I have my mill in is used for other projects I needed to have it entirely enclosed to keep chips and coolant from flying around.

    This presented me with an interesting problem. The bottom of the enclosure needs to be sealed to keep the coolant from leaking out all over my workbench, but with the 8020 product the bottom piece of plastic is in the T-slot, so it is suspended off the bench by about 1/4". That means I can't just set the mill down in the middle of it because it would bow the plastic in the center of it and all the coolant would pool there. I could put the drain in the middle, but that would mean I'd have to cut a hole in my workbench and I didn't want to do that.

    So, I came up with what I think is a unique idea. It's a little hard to tell from the pictures, but the mill is suspended on three t-slot rails spanning form front to back inside the enclosure. I did the deflection calculations and consulted with an 8020 supplier to make sure this would be strong enough and vibration free to run the mill. Everything seemed plenty strong, so fingers crossed! With this design it means the bottom piece is one solid piece and I don't need to drill holes in it to mount the mill, which will minimize leak problems. The mill is mounted to the enclosure and then the entire enclosure is mounted to the workbench.

    Here is the first picture:



    Then, I made sure to put a rubber gasket on the bottom and back of the plastic panel and another at the top in front. Plus I also used some shims underneath the plastic panel. These both make sure that the plastic panel slopes slightly towards the front of the enclosure where I will install drain holes to drain the coolant. Since the enclosure overhangs the workbench in the front by about 4in I don't need to cut any holes in the workbench there.

    Picture #2:



    A neat added benefit of this design is that it allowed the mill mount to be very adjustable. I can slide the mill front to back and side to side to make sure it's positioned just right so my servos and table will clear in all directions, before I secure it down.

    Picture #3:




    So, now I just need to figure out the details of the flood coolant system.

    Any advice on how you think I should set up the flood cooling system?

    I was thinking of putting a drain towards the front of the bottom panel, then I'd have a hose running down to a bucket. The bucket would contain the coolant and a pump, which would pump the coolant back up into the enclosure.

    I've heard that some people have had success with some inexpensive fish tank pumps. What pump would you recommend?

    What about a filter? I assume that I need to filter chips out so they don't ruin the pump or get pumped back into the enclosure.

    What other parts do I need?

    I'd appreciate it if anyone has any good links to some websites that have details on building a flood cooling system.

    Thanks!

    Similar Threads:
    Last edited by VTX; 03-26-2007 at 04:09 PM.


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    You are going to have problems with the coolant and the lower section of your 80/20 you might consider a subfloor/subbase now, like a drain catch for a wash basin and then raise up the 80/20 little, you will need slope of around 1 in 48 or 1/4" per foot other wise you will get pools and then swarf build up and then stink(uck).

    The 80/20 flexes some in my experierence with machine guarding, so a very good silcon should be used, I have a personal prefernce to GE silcone II clear myself.
    chris



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    Quote Originally Posted by in2steam View Post
    You are going to have problems with the coolant and the lower section of your 80/20 you might consider a subfloor/subbase now, like a drain catch for a wash basin and then raise up the 80/20 little, you will need slope of around 1 in 48 or 1/4" per foot other wise you will get pools and then swarf build up and then stink(uck).

    The 80/20 flexes some in my experierence with machine guarding, so a very good silcon should be used, I have a personal prefernce to GE silcone II clear myself.
    chris
    Yes, I planned on putting a drain the the base and the coolant will drain below the entire enclosure into a container of some sort.

    The bottom panel slopes towards the front of the enclosure and the enclosure overhangs the workbench, so my plan was to put at least one drain up in the front of the bottom panel. Probably more all along the front edge.

    It sounds like maybe I need more of a slope though?



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    Quote Originally Posted by VTX View Post
    Yes, I planned on putting a drain the the base and the coolant will drain below the entire enclosure into a container of some sort.

    The bottom panel slopes towards the front of the enclosure and the enclosure overhangs the workbench, so my plan was to put at least one drain up in the front of the bottom panel. Probably more all along the front edge.

    It sounds like maybe I need more of a slope though?
    I think in large diameter open pipe 1/8" is condsidered min. but you will have swarf in there so I doubled it, I looked at some wash tube basins at home depot today and they would work well, in your case I would be drilling alot holes in the bottom, maybe 1/4" or less, and screeening them to catch the swarf. You could also cheat and tilt the whole assmebly or the bench, some as you don't want coolant to sit in the open terribly long. Another word of caution with 80/20 as I strolled into work this evening one of the guards around a machine that I have came loose, apparently the mounting, and t-nut wore through, as there is small pile of alum dust at that corner, shut the whole dammed thing down as its saftey interlocked and the switch pulled out enough of its keeper. Now I have to try and weld(not so much fun) or remount that bar(its not gusseted because of room)so watch your mounting on the mill!

    I am not a real big fan of 80/20 esp when its touching the machines, other companies make better stuff. The boss ordered some 80/20 the other day thats considerably more hefty, but at its price for the jig we are making I could have welded steel and it would have weighed nearly the same at around 1/3 the price. Its flat on the back side with four t slots on the other, its very stiff but also weighs a ton.
    but I digress
    chris



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    Quote Originally Posted by in2steam View Post
    I think in large diameter open pipe 1/8" is condsidered min. but you will have swarf in there so I doubled it, I looked at some wash tube basins at home depot today and they would work well, in your case I would be drilling alot holes in the bottom, maybe 1/4" or less, and screeening them to catch the swarf. You could also cheat and tilt the whole assmebly or the bench, some as you don't want coolant to sit in the open terribly long. Another word of caution with 80/20 as I strolled into work this evening one of the guards around a machine that I have came loose, apparently the mounting, and t-nut wore through, as there is small pile of alum dust at that corner, shut the whole dammed thing down as its saftey interlocked and the switch pulled out enough of its keeper. Now I have to try and weld(not so much fun) or remount that bar(its not gusseted because of room)so watch your mounting on the mill!

    I am not a real big fan of 80/20 esp when its touching the machines, other companies make better stuff. The boss ordered some 80/20 the other day thats considerably more hefty, but at its price for the jig we are making I could have welded steel and it would have weighed nearly the same at around 1/3 the price. Its flat on the back side with four t slots on the other, its very stiff but also weighs a ton.
    but I digress
    chris
    Who makes better stuff than 80/20? I'd be curious to look at their websites. Thanks.



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    The forces that will be generated with the TAIG should not be more than the 3 extrusions he has it attached to. If vibration is a problem all he needs to do is get a chunk of cast iron and bolt it in between the TAIG base and the extrusions. The TAIG is a very smoothe and vibration free machine to begin with.

    A removable catch basin may not be a bad idea to put right under the 3 front-to-back extrusions, let it touch the bottom of the extrusions at the back and slope down to touch the bottom plastic at the front. Put the drain holes along that front edge and have the catch basin stop just before it gets to the drain holes. This will give more slope and would be replaceable in case it gets really nasty, saving the nice bottom you already have installed.



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    Quote Originally Posted by in2steam View Post
    Another word of caution with 80/20 as I strolled into work this evening one of the guards around a machine that I have came loose, apparently the mounting, and t-nut wore through, as there is small pile of alum dust at that corner, shut the whole dammed thing down as its saftey interlocked and the switch pulled out enough of its keeper. Now I have to try and weld(not so much fun) or remount that bar(its not gusseted because of room)so watch your mounting on the mill!
    Was the cause of the failure improperly installed or tightened fasteners? I have 8020 on my mill enclosure and in two years have not had any problems. We also use it at work and those machines run 24/7. I have not heard of a single issue. YMMV



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    Overall, can you itemize your build list and include prices? I am looking into doing a similar build myself, but don't know where to begin!



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    It is a fine looking enclosure, but IMHO unless you have a large drain in it, you will be forever sweeping out soggy chips by hand. My last enclosure had a 1.25" dia drain which regularly clogged up with chips (drill swarf makes it's own all-metal filters in the pipes ) - so my new table has a hole about 4"x3" with a small sheet of aluminium mesh in it to act as a table-top chip screen - much easier to empty than one under the table

    A good slope on the coolant table is also vital if you want the chips to wash themselves away to the chip basket.



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    Quote Originally Posted by digits View Post
    It is a fine looking enclosure, but IMHO unless you have a large drain in it, you will be forever sweeping out soggy chips by hand. My last enclosure had a 1.25" dia drain which regularly clogged up with chips (drill swarf makes it's own all-metal filters in the pipes ) - so my new table has a hole about 4"x3" with a small sheet of aluminium mesh in it to act as a table-top chip screen - much easier to empty than one under the table

    A good slope on the coolant table is also vital if you want the chips to wash themselves away to the chip basket.
    I plan on putting a large drain in it. I have about 4in of overhang on the front of the bench, so I can fit at least a 4in diameter drain. I was actually thinking of putting more than one up front.

    I may end up adding a piece of lexan in the bottom and shimming it to add more slope than is currently in there, but that shouldn't be a problem and I can easily seal around it.



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    Hi VTX
    Yes that is a nice setup.
    Looking at the pictures I would mount the Taig on a 9x12 granite surface plate I have done this and contains the vibrations from the machine.
    Im not sure how flexible the bottom panel is on your enclosure but I think 1/4
    inch slope from the center to the perimeter would give good drainage.
    What I would do is to have a plate under your panel same size as the surface plate and sandwich the granite surface plate on top of your panel and base plate with a lift for drainage.you could also use 1/8 thick rubber matt to help
    level the machine.
    I use a 12v boat bilge pump 360 gph and tubing reducers for my coolant.
    this gives good pressure.
    Also for my drain try a thru hull fitting and a dirty sock for a filter that works
    for me lol.
    Thanks
    aim frank02189
    yahoo im frank02189



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    Quote Originally Posted by Burn View Post
    Overall, can you itemize your build list and include prices? I am looking into doing a similar build myself, but don't know where to begin!
    I'll see what I can do about that tomorrow. I left my invoice at work.

    It isn't cheap though, but if you can find the parts on ebay then you can probably cut costs significantly.



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    Quote Originally Posted by VTX View Post
    Who makes better stuff than 80/20? I'd be curious to look at their websites. Thanks.
    VTX don't use lexan to make your slope, besides being an exepnsive slope it will scratch the living **** out of it and just act like a dust rag after time.

    One of the companies I have handy is called Paletti, I cannot say that I have worked with it directly(cut it), but I have several machines that were constructed with it and it seems better then 80/20 of similiar size. 80/20 is nice if you have nothing else, but when you have used somthing else you find out that its not the best. 80/20 sent us a catalog not long ago and there selection is alot greater then it used to be, in I don't like there web for the slots they could be heftier, but if you need light weight with strength its a good way to go. I don't know if they sell direct my assumption is no, we order through several suppliers locally, mostly bearings inc or motion industries. Its been used on many parts of the presses we run, most of them made in germany or sweden.

    www.palettiusa.com

    Mgamber: the 80/20 in question failed because of several reasons, first was poor design, second was improper fastening, third was time. The biggest factor was that this piece was holding another whole section up, it was the top of a door opening on the jamb side. I did'nt design or build it I just fixed it, now its a solid piece of alum tubing I had laying around. This door in question opens around 50-90 times a shift, the webbing of the extrusion broke through it should have been gusseted, but its replacement neither has nor needs a gusset. The machine that its around does not directly connect to it, its soft tool die cutter, which can vibrate alot(more like thunder) but that should not have much if any bearing on this piece it was the aciton of opening and closing a door for years. I never said the taig vibrates alot, I own a lathe and I love it, but you should none the less be careful mounting to alum because it does flex, esp if you lift it up off of a surface for a drain basin.

    Chris



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    Well, like I said I did do deflection calculations on the 80/20 and the worst case scenario (all weight of the TAIG in the very center of the beams, which is not the case in real life) is that the beams deflect no more than .006".

    That seems pretty minimal to me.

    I guess I'll find out once I get the thing running. If I have to I can always change it to mount the TAIG direct to the bench and figure out another way to drain things, but the rest of the guard should be plenty strong for what I'm doing.



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    Quote Originally Posted by VTX View Post
    Well, like I said I did do deflection calculations on the 80/20 and the worst case scenario (all weight of the TAIG in the very center of the beams, which is not the case in real life) is that the beams deflect no more than .006".

    That seems pretty minimal to me.

    I guess I'll find out once I get the thing running. If I have to I can always change it to mount the TAIG direct to the bench and figure out another way to drain things, but the rest of the guard should be plenty strong for what I'm doing.
    No doubt that guard is strong, its nicely constructed btw I never stated that before, thats rude of me esp when I saw the pictures and was thinking about what I want to do at home.

    Did you put any kind of foot pad under the taig between it and the alum?
    chris



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    Quote Originally Posted by in2steam View Post
    No doubt that guard is strong, its nicely constructed btw I never stated that before, thats rude of me esp when I saw the pictures and was thinking about what I want to do at home.

    Did you put any kind of foot pad under the taig between it and the alum?
    chris
    No worries. Thanks for the compliment.

    No, I didn't put a pad between the TAIG and the beams, but I think you have a good idea. I might try and find some kind of pad to put between them.

    I've been thinking about this more and now I'm leaning towards just putting the drain right in the center of the bottom piece of plastic. There is about 1/2" gap between the bottom of the plastic and the bench top. It's flexible enough that I think if I cut a hole in the center of the plastic and in the center of my workbench I could put some kind of flange in there and screw it down to the workbench. That would put about a 1/2" decline towards the center of the enclosure floor. Then I could run a pipe down through enclosure floor and the bench top to the shelf below it and put the cooling fluid reservoir.

    I think this will give me a better decline for the fluid to drain.

    Someone else asked about a parts list. Sorry, the invoice I have doesn't list individual prices, plus it will vary depending on who you go through (ebay, or an 80/20 consulting firm), but here is the parts list:

    QTY-------Item---------------------Description----------Machining Service
    3----------1515 x 28"---------------T-slot extrusion------Anchor fastener counterbore
    2----------1515-LITE x 48"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends, access holes at ends
    4----------1515-LITE x 32"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends
    4----------1515-LITE x 31.625"------T-slot extrusion------Mitered ends
    4----------1515-LITE x 22.28"-------T-slot extrusion------Mitered ends
    2----------1515-LITE x 28"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends
    2----------1530-LITE x 48"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends, access holes at ends
    2----------1530-LITE x 28"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends
    1----------2609 45.750" x 28.750"---Lexan panel
    2----------2609 32.750" x 28.750"---Lexan panel----------Notched corners
    2----------2609 20.030" x 29.375"---Lexan panel
    1----------2655 32.750" x 45.750"---HDPE panel
    1----------2655 45.750" x 28.750"---HDPE panel
    4----------2030-PLAIN--------------T-slot end cap
    4----------2045-PLAIN--------------T-slot end cap
    2----------2053---------------------Deadbolt latch
    2----------2061---------------------Door handles
    4----------2085---------------------Hinges
    11---------2110---------------------T-slot covers
    75ft-------2115----------------------Rubber panel gasket
    *11--------2829---------------------Rubber door seal*
    8----------4481---------------------5 hole "L" joining plate
    20---------3111---------------------5/16-18 x 0.625" Hex bolt
    16---------3319---------------------5/16-18 x 1/2" Hex bolt & Econ T-nuts
    40---------3320---------------------5/16-18 x 11/16" Hex bolt & Econ T-nuts
    6----------3360---------------------Anchor fastener assembly
    4----------3455---------------------5/16-18 x 3/4" Hex bolt & Econ T-nut

    *Note about the door seal, I didn't like it. The main reason was that I think I didn't allow enough gap so it made the doors way too tight. The catalog gave a minimum gap for the door seal, which is what I used, but their idea of minimum gap I guess was a little different than mine. I ended up buying some thinner rubber door seal at the hardware store and it works great. There is a nice rush of air when opening and closing the doors, so I know it's air tight. If you decide to go with 8020's door seal, I'd recommend using a slightly larger gap, which of course will change some of the t-slot dimensions I listed above. The other strange thing about the door seal is that the edge of the door where the hinge is, has a smaller gap than the minimum gap that 8020 lists for the door seal. You can't change the gap here, because the hinge design forces it to be a certain gap. So, you have to use another type of seal on that edge anyway. The stuff I found at the hardware store ended up being perfect for all four sides of the doors.



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    Quote Originally Posted by VTX View Post
    No worries. Thanks for the compliment.

    No, I didn't put a pad between the TAIG and the beams, but I think you have a good idea. I might try and find some kind of pad to put between them.

    I've been thinking about this more and now I'm leaning towards just putting the drain right in the center of the bottom piece of plastic. There is about 1/2" gap between the bottom of the plastic and the bench top. It's flexible enough that I think if I cut a hole in the center of the plastic and in the center of my workbench I could put some kind of flange in there and screw it down to the workbench. That would put about a 1/2" decline towards the center of the enclosure floor. Then I could run a pipe down through enclosure floor and the bench top to the shelf below it and put the cooling fluid reservoir.

    I think this will give me a better decline for the fluid to drain.

    Someone else asked about a parts list. Sorry, the invoice I have doesn't list individual prices, plus it will vary depending on who you go through (ebay, or an 80/20 consulting firm), but here is the parts list:

    QTY-------Item---------------------Description----------Machining Service
    3----------1515 x 28"---------------T-slot extrusion------Anchor fastener counterbore
    2----------1515-LITE x 48"----------T-slot extrusion------Access holes at ends Removed tapped ends, not needed
    4----------1515-LITE x 32"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends
    4----------1515-LITE x 31.625"------T-slot extrusion------Mitered ends
    4----------1515-LITE x 22.28"-------T-slot extrusion------Mitered ends
    2----------1515-LITE x 28"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends
    2----------1530-LITE x 48"----------T-slot extrusion------Access holes at ends Removed tapped ends, not needed
    2----------1530-LITE x 28"----------T-slot extrusion------Tapped ends
    1----------2609 45.750" x 28.750"---Lexan panel
    2----------2609 32.750" x 28.750"---Lexan panel----------Notched corners
    2----------2609 20.030" x 29.375"---Lexan panel
    1----------2655 32.750" x 45.750"---HDPE panel
    1----------2655 45.750" x 28.750"---HDPE panel
    4----------2030-PLAIN--------------T-slot end cap
    4----------2045-PLAIN--------------T-slot end cap
    2----------2053---------------------Deadbolt latch
    2----------2061---------------------Door handles
    4----------2085---------------------Hinges
    11---------2110---------------------T-slot covers
    75ft-------2115----------------------Rubber panel gasket
    *11--------2829---------------------Rubber door seal*
    8----------4481---------------------5 hole "L" joining plate
    20---------3111---------------------5/16-18 x 0.625" Hex bolt
    16---------3319---------------------5/16-18 x 1/2" Hex bolt & Econ T-nuts
    40---------3320---------------------5/16-18 x 11/16" Hex bolt & Econ T-nuts
    6----------3360---------------------Anchor fastener assembly
    4----------3455---------------------5/16-18 x 3/4" Hex bolt & Econ T-nut

    *Note about the door seal, I didn't like it. The main reason was that I think I didn't allow enough gap so it made the doors way too tight. The catalog gave a minimum gap for the door seal, which is what I used, but their idea of minimum gap I guess was a little different than mine. I ended up buying some thinner rubber door seal at the hardware store and it works great. There is a nice rush of air when opening and closing the doors, so I know it's air tight. If you decide to go with 8020's door seal, I'd recommend using a slightly larger gap, which of course will change some of the t-slot dimensions I listed above. The other strange thing about the door seal is that the edge of the door where the hinge is, has a smaller gap than the minimum gap that 8020 lists for the door seal. You can't change the gap here, because the hinge design forces it to be a certain gap. So, you have to use another type of seal on that edge anyway. The stuff I found at the hardware store ended up being perfect for all four sides of the doors.
    This is silly, but I can't seem to find an edit button for the posts, so I guess I'll quote myself. This is in response to a PM I received about my parts list. I am making a correction on some of the machining services. See above.

    Also, not included above are the brackets for mounting the enclosure to the desk top, or the extrusion and fasteners used for mounting the PC case and controller to the top of the enclosure.

    Last edited by VTX; 05-23-2007 at 11:42 AM.


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    Here are some updated pictures of the flood coolant system in action. I moved the mill to a new table. It's now mounted to an old steel desk that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 250-300lbs.

    First pic shows the coolant manifold setup:




    This next pic is how the enclosure is bolted to the table. The table top is steel as well, so it's plenty solid:




    Here's a look at the whole enclosure on the desk with the coolant tank underneath. I just used a clear storage bin that I got cheap at Walmart for the tank. I got another clear bin the same size, but much shallower and use it as a chip catch. I cut the bottom out of the shallow bin and mounted a window screen to the bottom. I think I'll add something else in there because the window screen isn't fine enough for small chips. When I'm done cutting I simply remove the tray and put the lid on the tank to keep the coolant from evaporating.




    Pic of the drain in the bottom of the enclosure. There is a gap of about 1/2" between the bottom panel and the desk top, so when I screwed the drain flange down it created a slope to the center. I used a utility knife to cut the bottom panel a little to get the flange flush.




    Here it is in action. With the mill suspended all the coolant runs to the drain easily:





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    Now where are the chips!?



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    That looks very nice indeed!

    Have you actually tried milling/drilling with coolant yet? I find that the drill swarf builds up under my mill, which is also suspended above the waterproof floor of the enclosure. The chip build up is a pain because it prevents the table from draining quickly, so I regularly have to scrape out from under the machine, which is easier said than done!

    I am beginning to think that adding another coolant pump to simply flush the chips across base of the enclosure might be a good idea...



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My new TAIG and enclosure...also flood cooling ?'s

My new TAIG and enclosure...also flood cooling ?'s

My new TAIG and enclosure...also flood cooling ?'s