Frying Components


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    Default Frying Components

    Frying components on Syil X3 board, after a session on the mill I heard the sound of frying from the back of the machine, on investigation the two large 5W 10K ceramic resisters at the top right hand corner of the green board shows signs of getting hot and had burnt through the link wire on the small transformer which sits opposite the resisters when the back is on.
    I have re connected the link wire, the resisters are still in one piece and connected to the board but cannot get the mill to jog, can anyone suggest a fix?
    Thanks

    Mike

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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Mike,

    Need a few photos of the [problem areas and to identify which one of the MANY models you are lucky enough to have.
    Are you a regular user of the e-stop button? I suspect I get a yes from that.

    Neil

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Neil
    Thanks for reply here are pics of the suspect boards, I repaired the red link wire on the transformer of the breakout board but the green led does not light. Although I am not a regular user of the e-stop I did use it in the last session!! I tested the ceramic resisters and get continuity across both. Also the Z axis went into free fall, I have been in contact with Syil UK agent for spare boards but no luck.
    It might be easier to contact directly my e-mail is palmermichael@talktalk.net

    Regards

    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Frying Components-p1070255a-jpg   Frying Components-p1070256a-jpg   Frying Components-p1070257a-jpg  


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Neil

    Have you had a chance to look into the problem with my X3? I have bought two new ceramic resistors but will wait to hear from you before replacing them.

    Regards

    Mike



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    Lightbulb Re: Frying Components

    Sorry about delay. I have been CNC busy, offline.

    The 10K resistors work the 100v relay from 240v!
    If relay JK1 does not come on, then nothing works. It is controlled from e-stop circuit. JK1 could be replace by a similar relay with a higher voltage coil, and no resistors.
    ALL MEASUREMENTS must be done relative to their common points. Any short to ground (chassis) will usually let the magic smoke out!

    Shorts to ground have been known to blow tracks under TR1 on bottom left corner of PCB
    The shorts can occur in the flexible cables to the head or more likely from front panel board to chassis.

    DO NOT even loosen the front panel screws with power on. The magic smoke will be released.
    The QUILL must be all the way down before removing front panel as the quill DRO will short parts of the PCB to chassis.

    Problem with using e-stop switch is, that when releasing it, a high surge current on contacts caused by recharging E1 and E2
    You are not protected by RT1 and RT3, and power needs to be OFF for at least a minute or two, releasing E-stop, then turning power back on.


    ===>>>
    No point measuring the following if safety relay is not working.
    You at least need 5v from OUT to GND on Ic2, or front panel board won't allow safety relay to operate.

    ========================================= >>>>>>>>>>

    The 8pin IC in the top left corner of PCB is might dead.
    You need to be very careful measuring voltages.
    There are multiple floating supplies.
    1. Bottom right of schematic Pin 1-2 should be 5v
    2. Pin 3-4 should be 6v.
    Be VERY careful not to touch any of these line marked GND. They are not GROUND!!!

    No voltage on 1 or 2 probably caused by faulty U1 an 8pin TNY268P. Readily available.
    MC33035 motor BLDC motor control is readily available.

    I have shown multiple front panel schematics. Not sure which one is yours.
    The Grizzly wiring diagram is VERY close, although the main board is a different version.
    Regardless, shorts to quill DRO apply.
    ===========================================
    There is sufficient information here, with the PDFs (print them) to fault find and repair your machine.

    Cheers -- been there. Done that.
    Neil

    NB.
    GND is not chassis ground!!
    GNDA is not chassis ground!!

    Some GND might be chassis ground. You have been warned.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Frying Components-mill-control-board-front-panel-early-pdf   Frying Components-xmt_panel_1000-pdf   Frying Components-control-board-wiring-diagram-grizzly-adel_cameron-pdf  
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by neilw20; 03-10-2018 at 11:34 PM.
    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Neil

    Thanks for explanation of the situation, but am not clear as to action, my knowledge of electronics is limited. I get a clunk when I turn on, front panel lights up and pushing start the spindle turns so I assume the main green board is ok. I have no control from Mach, the green led on the breakout board is not lit so i assume there is a problem with this board?

    Are you on Skype if so It might be quicker to converse?

    Regards

    Mike



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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Mike.

    Spindle runs. That is good. Can vary the speed ok? Load it up. All good?

    The clunk is the stepper drivers powering up. That is normal and good.
    No green led means no 5v power from regulator on breakout board.
    Need a photo of breakout board so I know which (of the many) version(s) it is!
    Different versions are powered by different means. I probably have a schematic.

    skype? PM me your skype contact name.
    Neil

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Neil
    The breakout board is the pic with the blue board,

    Mike



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    Default Re: Frying Components

    OK. Here is a schematic for it.
    Checked fuse with multimeter.
    Also if estop not supplying main relay the transformer powering the breakout board might have no power.
    PM me your skype. I am still awake at 4:15 am

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Frying Components-bob-x3-schematic-pdf  
    Last edited by neilw20; 03-11-2018 at 01:19 PM. Reason: added pdf.
    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Z axis falling?
    The gas strut is cactus.
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/syil-p...ml#post1199056

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Neil

    Thanks for the diagram of the breakout board great help, we have progress I wired in a separate 12v AC to breakout board and led lit, fired up the mill and Mach and all seems to work. What I thought was a burnt link wire on the transformer was in fact the 120V AC input but for the life of me I cannot find where the feed to that transformer lies, any clues?
    When something goes wrong they tend to come in numbers why the gas strut failed at the same time is sods law!!!

    Regards

    Mike



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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Neil

    Re wired transformer with independent AC supply and all works, ran a program and mill performed well, so the only damage was the burnt supply to the breakout board.

    Cheers

    Mike



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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Neil

    When we Skyped you mentioned that you had designed a circuit to dissipate the load on the 10K resisters when using e-stop, could you let me have the details?

    Thanks again for your help with the mill, as I said you are the only one that knows how these machines work, and is prepared to take time to help fellow owners.

    Regards

    Mike



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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Mike (and Donna)

    I will measure relay and calculate value of parts for diode pump circuit.
    A bit busy, so hit me in a week if I don't give an answer. I must emulate circuit to get values.
    Emulated, on computer, makes it less likely for the magic smoke and noise to escape.
    Basically, it is a capacitive divider and rectifier, but i need to know what the load is to get started.
    I will need to test with a relay from one of my dead boards.

    Neil

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Quote Originally Posted by palmcnc View Post
    Hi Neil

    Thanks for the diagram of the breakout board great help, we have progress I wired in a separate 12v AC to breakout board and led lit, fired up the mill and Mach and all seems to work. What I thought was a burnt link wire on the transformer was in fact the 120V AC input but for the life of me I cannot find where the feed to that transformer lies, any clues?
    When something goes wrong they tend to come in numbers why the gas strut failed at the same time is sods law!!!

    Regards

    Mike
    Have a dig in the cabinet and find where the transformer wires go.
    Might be a fuse hidden. Or is the primary open circuit. Disconnect one end before trying to measure transformer resistance.
    The link for 120v is the junction of two 120v windings in series.My guess.

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Default Re: Frying Components

    Hi Neil

    Take your time no rush, I have my mill back so am content and will not use e-stop!!!!

    Regards

    Mike



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