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Thread: What do you expect from Chinese components?

  1. #1

    Default What do you expect from Chinese components?

    My title is misleading, my experience (lack of) or the Chinese components made for an interesting ride into the world of CNC.

    Background
    ----------------

    I have no experience in CNC
    2020 lockdown, I decided to make a cnc router, though I nearly went the route of buying a shapeoko or something of a similar ilk.
    Bought all my components from Ali, everything was price driven.
    Didn't really follow any plans.

    Interest
    ----------

    Making loudspeaker.

    Aim
    -----

    Build as big of a cutting area as possible.

    Parts used
    --------------

    Hgr20-500 2
    Hgr20-1400 2
    Hgr20-1500 4
    Hgr20CA 16
    SFU1605-500mm + nut with end machining 1
    SFu1610-1400mm + nut with end machining 1
    SFU1610-1500mm + nut with end machining 2
    DSG16H 4
    XB25*30-8*10 4
    BK/BF12 4
    2.2KW Water Cooled Spindle 1
    2.2KW Inverter 1
    ER20 Collet 1
    Nema23 425oz 4
    TB660 Stepper motor driver 4
    36V 350W Power Supply 2
    Mach 3 interface board / USB Connection 1
    Cable Chain 25*38-1000mm 4
    Proximity Switch 4
    Emergency Stop 1

    CONCLUSION
    --------------------



    To be fair, my expectations where low, would you really expect anything to be smooth sailing with this configuration? Well the answer is yes, though with a pinch of salt. The biggest issue and weakest link (which won't be of any surprise) has been the Stepper Drivers - TB6600 (which aren't using the TB6600 chipset!). My god do these get hot, and in-turn, they shut down which is perfect when your slave Y axis die whilst the other side continue to rip the Gantry apart.

    Here a video of my second test run -

    PROBLEM
    ---------------

    I'll admit, that after all the turning, fettling, tramming etc, I have finally got to a stage where she will cut for 8hrs straight (120mm fans sitting on the TB6600 help), but before I upgrade the drivers to either Geko or leadshine AM882, why cant I get the old girl to run at 400 steps?


    Scenario -

    Motor is 23HS45-4204S, driver TB6600 set to 2.8A using a 10Amp 36v PSU. Ball screw 1610, 5pitch 10 lead.

    When set to 800 pulse/rev, she will happily move at 2500mm/min. However, when trying to run at 400p/m at 1000, the drivers crap out? This to me is weird you would expect at 800p/m (0.45deg) more current is required compared with 400? Could this be more to do with my Mach3 setting instead of the general consensus that the $3 TB6600 is at fault?

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  2. #2
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you expect from Chinese components?

    When set to 800 pulse/rev, she will happily move at 2500mm/min. However, when trying to run at 400p/m at 1000, the drivers crap out?
    Define "crap out".

    Are the motors stalling, or the drives failing or faulting?

    You usually want higher microstepping, as the motors will run smoother. fewer microsteps makes resonance more likely, which can cause stalling.

    I have some AM882's, they are near silent, and very smooth. Those motors you have really need a 72V power supply. With a 72V supply, and AM882's, you might see 3x (or more) better performance.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  3. #3

    Default Re: What do you expect from Chinese components?

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Define "crap out"..
    Yes, I should have been more specific. The TB6600 get hot and shut down. From a mechanical point of view, it runs fine, motors not stalling just the drivers having the issue with heat. My understanding was that at a higher pulse per rev, more current would be required to achieve any torque comparable to a lesser microstep.

    Personally I'm not going the flog a dead horse. I pleased that the machine runs at all and the fact that I'm currently cutting plywood, 2000mm/min is about right for the feedrate.

    On a side note, I never really got why the BSMCE04U got such a bad rep? Okay, I have no comparison so I don't know what I'm missing out on, but I have to say its pretty much play'n'play. (Though if you're not into computers, you may miss a trick with windows 7 and getting the right driver to work. )



  4. #4
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you expect from Chinese components?

    On a side note, I never really got why the BSMCE04U got such a bad rep?
    Try using some probing or Auto Zero macros.
    Most of the Chinese boards will work fine with the basic functions, but most if not all will fail at auto zero macros, and there are probably several other functions not supported at all.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  5. #5
    Member Algirdas's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you expect from Chinese components?

    1. First of all. If you ever tested with no cutting load? Axis movement "in the air" ?
    2. Split the points to check:
    - Power supply. If there are no voltage drops below acceptable level?
    - cooling. Driver chips produce heat. Use heat sink and fan to cool down.
    - control issues. Try different approach. Check if control signal is reaching the final point ( the motor ) correct way.
    - timing. Check if mistakes multiply with speed increase. Maybe is possible reduce mistakes by just taking lower speed.
    3. Conception of controls. You can follow the jig error using encoders.



  6. #6

    Default Re: What do you expect from Chinese components?

    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    1. First of all. If you ever tested with no cutting load? Axis movement "in the air" ?
    Yes, so at 800p/r I can happily rock at 4000mm/min, no problems with the driver overheating/shutting down. However at 400p/r, the drivers overheat around 5min mark @ 1000mm/min. No load.

    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    2. Split the points to check:
    - Power supply. If there are no voltage drops below acceptable level?
    - cooling. Driver chips produce heat. Use heat sink and fan to cool down.
    - control issues. Try different approach. Check if control signal is reaching the final point ( the motor ) correct way.
    - timing. Check if mistakes multiply with speed increase. Maybe is possible reduce mistakes by just taking lower speed.
    Not fully check voltage drop, its on my list.
    Cooling, as I mentioned about, since running a 120mm fan, that this has helped me run at 800r/p @ 2500mm/min cutting
    Control signal, well this must be fine as the motors are working.
    No matter what speed I run at 400, though the moment is smooth, the drivers get way to hot. I may investigate if reducing the acceleration helps. Also got to check if the clock speed on Mach side is correct, though again, 800 required a higher clock speed that 400.

    Quote Originally Posted by Algirdas View Post
    3. Conception of controls. You can follow the jig error using encoders.
    As mach3 doesn't read encoder feedback and the TB6600 doesn't have this capability, this isn't an option. Agreed if I upgrade to a hybrid driver like Leadshine then this would be a useful. (Though I suspect I wouldn't have any issues in the first place which such premium drivers.)



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What do you expect from Chinese components?

What do you expect from Chinese components?

What do you expect from Chinese components?