TB6600 drive from EBAY

[kizier]

I am glad I found this thread, I have the same problematic drives in my mill setup.
Do I understand it correctly looking into TB6600 schematics, pin 3 TQ should be connected to pin 4 Latch/Auto.

Which components are incorrect/wrong values? Are they Vref resistors? Could I change them to improve performance?

Thanks a lot for your help.

[jcsbanks]

A surface mount resistor and capacitor on the back of the board (where there isn't much room) are orders of magnitude too small.

I'm intending to put a blob of solder between pins 3 and 4 to try. I'm experienced with soldering short of replacing SMT components, and I don't even know if a capacitor of sufficient capacitor would be a same size replacement whilst not using such a high resistor value that it would take too long to charge and produce a delay with each step signal.

[dmalicky]

I just noticed this thread. About 6 months ago, I also tried one of those HY-DIV268N-5A TB6600s and also found the torque was really low. Now I know why -- thanks Lucas!!
I tried 3 different Chinese 6600 boards and all had oddities of some sort. What I don't get is why a Chinese company hasn't hired Lucas to design a proper 6600 board for mass production.

[Mariss Freimanis]

Lucas,

If you would like, please PM me. I'd like to send you for free our very latest new drive; I think you will find it interesting.

Mariss
Geckodrive

[lucas]

I am glad I found this thread, I have the same problematic drives in my mill setup.
Do I understand it correctly looking into TB6600 schematics, pin 3 TQ should be connected to pin 4 Latch/Auto.

Which components are incorrect/wrong values? Are they Vref resistors? Could I change them to improve performance?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Pin 3 must be at high level to drive the chip in full current mode, you could try to lift it and connect to +5 through a 4K7 - 10K resistor.
Pin 4 already has this resistor, so shorting 3 to 4 should do the job.
A lot of components are wrong in this drive, the whole torque control is wrong and there are others like the 470µF cap on the Vreg output, the datasheet says 100n.
I wouldn't be surprised that a capacitor wich is 4700 times to high might kill the internal 5V regulator.
A "How to fix this drive" won't be as easy like it has been done for the crappy Chinese TB6560 drives.

I just noticed this thread. About 6 months ago, I also tried one of those HY-DIV268N-5A TB6600s and also found the torque was really low. Now I know why -- thanks Lucas!!
I tried 3 different Chinese 6600 boards and all had oddities of some sort. What I don't get is why a Chinese company hasn't hired Lucas to design a proper 6600 board for mass production.

I remember your thread on 2 drives but this one wasn't mentioned if memory serves me well?

Designing a decent drive with these Toshina chips isn't that difficult, a lot of people here can and have done it.
The THB6064 is an easy one, it has more features and all the 'difficult stuff" is built in, the TB6600 lacks a few of these and makes it more complex to design a well performing drive.
Even then the TB6600 can't match the THB6064: less microstep and decay mode options.

Designing a drive is one thing, make it so that it will last long is another: choosing the right components for the job, proper PCB and mechanical design etc..
This is where my 30+ years of repair experience helps a lot, I learned from the mistakes made by others....

Lucas,

If you would like, please PM me. I'd like to send you for free our very latest new drive; I think you will find it interesting.

Mariss
Geckodrive

Sure I will find it interesting, I already have some G251's.
And I also build the CPLD drive from your thread here and implemented morphing and mixed decay on it.

These Toshiba chip drives are basic and can't stand a comparison with Gecko's but I might take your offer to see how well these new drives perform.

[kizier]

Lucas and jcsbanks, thanks for your replies. I tried with connecting pin 3 and 4 as indicated, but my stepper is getting really hot, as mentioned by lucas, slight increase in torque noticed (not measured quantitatively though). I am starting to save for proper drivers or will construct something based on proven design.

Thanks again. All the best. kizier

[jcsbanks]

Thanks for the feedback, I've not had chance to connect pins 3-4 yet. How long did it take the stepper to get hot and was it too hot to hold? Is the thought that when moving the stepper will effectively cool itself due to windage or is it just as hot as it would be when operating?

Wondering if the current settings are correct, I'll look at some calculations based on the component values when I get chance unless someone else already has.

Lucas, when you say the whole torque control is wrong, you mean the components attached to pin 3 that we've already discussed or are there other problems?

[dmalicky]

I remember your thread on 2 drives but this one wasn't mentioned if memory serves me well?

Designing a decent drive with these Toshina chips isn't that difficult, a lot of people here can and have done it.
The THB6064 is an easy one, it has more features and all the 'difficult stuff" is built in, the TB6600 lacks a few of these and makes it more complex to design a well performing drive.
Even then the TB6600 can't match the THB6064: less microstep and decay mode options.

Good memory! Yes, I saw the new one after trying the other 2.
I'd be happy with a good presoldered THB6064, too. That's interesting that it's easier to design around. The 5.0 amps of the TB6600 is helpful for a few apps, but for others it sounds like the THB6064 is a better choice.

[lucas]

I tried with connecting pin 3 and 4 as indicated, but my stepper is getting really hot, as mentioned by lucas, slight increase in torque noticed (not measured quantitatively though).

How hot is "really hot"? Good motors can reach very high temperatures, I try to keep them at max. 60°C.
Can you check the motor current settings vs the motor specificated one? Or even better: measure the level at the VRef pin.

Lucas, when you say the whole torque control is wrong, you mean the components attached to pin 3 that we've already discussed or are there other problems?

Yes, I meant the torque reduction control but there are other problems as well, most are mentioned in this thread.

The 5.0 amps of the TB6600 is helpful for a few apps, but for others it sounds like the THB6064 is a better choice.

The mosfet output specifications in the datasheet are the same for both and both become just as warm when used with the same motor current and supply voltage.
I did run the THB6064 at 5 Amps without problems. The 0.5 Amp difference makes no difference to me.

[jcsbanks]

I shorted pins 3 and 4 on my x and y axes on my 6040Z. There is no build up of heat of any significance that I can detect over a few minutes.

[dmalicky]

The mosfet output specifications in the datasheet are the same for both and both become just as warm when used with the same motor current and supply voltage.
I did run the THB6064 at 5 Amps without problems. The 0.5 Amp difference makes no difference to me.

Good to hear--thanks!

[htrantx]

Lucas,

Good work on extracting the schematic from PCB.

do you have an explanation for the purpose of the transistor/resistor combo between the Enable and TQ pins?

The node at the collector of 3906, which has EN at the emitter, should be connected to GND.

EN transistor/resistor combo and TQ's are two unrelated circuits, and Alert when active will disable tb6600.

Time constant at TQ is 10e3 * beta_of_pnp3906 * 1e-9, which is around 1ms.

htrantx

[jcsbanks]

Would it be possible to prolong the step pulses to stop the torque dropping on the original circuit or am I best just keeping pins 3 and 4 shorted? I suspect the latter as at slow speeds I would really want all the torque available and with the number of times the step signal is inverted I am not clear when the 1ms would start from?

[htrantx]

Would it be possible to prolong the step pulses to stop the torque dropping on the original circuit or am I best just keeping pins 3 and 4 shorted? I suspect the latter as at slow speeds I would really want all the torque available and with the number of times the step signal is inverted I am not clear when the 1ms would start from?

The tb6600 output operation start at the rising edge of pin 21 (CLK in the datasheet). The TQ's time constant is activated by the same rising edge.

[Sion1138]

God damn it I installed these mofos a couple of days ago and I was wondering why my speeds are completely off.

The dip switch diagrams on the cover are wrong. Can't believe it.

Thanks for setting me straight. I still have one bad drive out of four, runs choppy and doesn't respond to the dips, but I'll take what I can get.

[Muellmann]

Hello,

I followed this thread very interested. Perhaps somebody can help me.
I ordered 5 of these damned TB1H (sorry, before I
red this thread) and did not get my steppers running powerfull.

Unfortunately since 11/14/2013 there is no further discussion in that thread.

After checking LUCASs investigations about TB1H, I tested to connect pin 3 and 4
at one of my five TB1H and the stepper runs quite powerfull - but only 2 minutes
up to that moment, when blue smoke crawls out of the TB6600HG.

I have to explane, that I did not isolate pin 3 (TQ) from the rest of the circuit. Is that wrong?

I tried everything with a Mean Well 48V powersupply.

Can anyone give me a hint how I can use these TB1H or do I have to handle them as waste?

Best regards

[lucas]

The TQ pin has a 2K resistor is series and this cannot be the cause for the smoke exept if there are changes to the board.

48V is dangerously close to the absolute maximum value of 50V. The TB6600 datasheet specifies the maximum operating voltage at 42V.
Check if you can turn down the output voltage, most of these have a trimpot and can be adjusted to a lower output voltage.

What motor current did you select?

[Muellmann]

lucas,

Thanks for quick response. I can drop down that powersupply to min 41V and I will try this.
Motor current had been selected to 5 A and I tried some quick stepper movings with quick
acceleration too.
But should it be better to isolate TQ from the circuit when connecting to LATCH or not?

Best regards

[Sion1138]

Which pins are 3 & 4?

On which side of the chip are they?

[lucas]

I can drop down that powersupply to min 41V and I will try this.
Motor current had been selected to 5 A and I tried some quick stepper movings with quick
acceleration too.
But should it be better to isolate TQ from the circuit when connecting to LATCH or not?

These drives: TB1H and HY-DIV268N are offered on Ebay spec'd at 5A current and 50V supply, this is simply cheating and lying.

5A is ALSO the absolute maximum peak value for 100msec.
Max. current in operating range is 4.5A so you were really over the operating values with 48V and 5Amp.

And these drives won't even handle the operating values if the chip is badly mounted (see pics in the early posts) where burrs on the mounting holes prevent the chip from laying flat on the heatsink resulting in insuficient cooling.

Then there's another "small" problem with these drives where the design doesn't comply with the current datasheet:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/TB6600HG.pdf
On page 8 :
" Pleas use the IC under the conditions as follows; 0.11Ω ≤ RNF ≤ 0.5Ω, 0.3V ≤ Vref ≤ 1.95V "
(This sentence was not present in the preliminary datasheet and other values are changed also.... and I really wonder why Toshiba still doesn't have an official datasheet on their website, weird.....)

Vref should thus be equal or lower than 1.95V, the sense resistor on these drives is 0.22 ohm and at 4.5A current this then results in a Vref voltage of 2.97V wich is far too high.
A drive with 0.22 ohm current sense resistors should thus be limited to 2.95 Amp: 2.95 * 0.22 * 3 = 1.947 volt on Vref.

Reduce the current to 3A max or change the sense resistors and check the mounting holes, remove burrs, clean heatsink and chip, then apply some heatsink paste and assemble as it should.
Bear in mind to handle the drive very gently because the PCB is floating and forces applied to it might damage the pins of the chip.

It's always better to isolate the TQ input but it might be risky to cut traces or remove SMD components without the proper tools.
If your drives match the schematic then there's no need to isolate the pin.

I have a few more issues with this chip, it's datasheet and the available drives but that's for later, don't have the time right now.

Which pins are 3 & 4?

On which side of the chip are they?

Please refer to the datasheet mentioned above, there's a drawing on one of the last pages with the pin numbers.