"Chinese" spindle minimum speed

[cnc-xray]

Hi,
It took some time, I was busy on writing a program to connect to the VFD via the rs485.
Eventually I would like to control the VFD via the emc2 program.

Here are some of my parameters (i hope i don't miss some of the important ones)

A003: 400
A004: 400
A041: 0
A042: 8.5 (Manual torque boost value)
A043: 1.5 (Manual torque boost frequency adjustment)
A044: 0
A045: 100
A061: 0
A062: 0
A085: 1 (Operation mode selection), not sure if that's necessary.
A086: 70 not sure if that's necessary.
B082: 5
B083: 3.0
B086: 60.0
B092: 2
C149: 100.0 (relay turn off delay) Used for coolant pump activation.
H003: 7 (2.2KW motor)
H004: 2 (poles)

I know this an old thread, but I would like to get "your thoughts and input" ( from others as well) if possible on running my 2.2 kw water cooled spindle.
I have a 3hp VFD Huanyang... will the above parameter work on this type of VFD?

Are my expectations reasonable listed below:

I'm working on a 4:1 gear reduction drive for it to help with powering low speed RPMs.
I really don't need 20,000 rpm.so 4:1 ratio (5,000 RPM tops) is good enough for me which will also allow me to run much slower RPMs..
I'm hoping that I'll be able to tap aluminum 3/8" UNC at about 300 RPM.
Do you think from your experience that is reasonable to expect that from this 4:1 drive setup?

Any advise or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[mactec54]

Oh no... I was hoping someone would come here and say "I run mine all the time at 1000 RPM without any trouble". Instead I find out that maybe it isn't a good idea to plunge straight down? My CAM program (RhinoCAM) will ramp in for the first contact with the material, but as far as I've seen, every subsequent drop in Z is straight down.!

This is an old thread

It's not going to have any torque at 1000 RPM you can most likely stall it with your hand, once you stall it in most cases you need a new spindle or both VFD and Spindle

That being said, there is one manufacture that can go down to 3000 RPM to 24,000 RPM

[mactec54]

Hi Hirudin,
Sorry for the late response.
I've just received my new 2.2KW water cooled spindle.
Before purchasing I had exactly the same dilemma, as many times when machining steel, or even aluminum with large diameter HSS tools you need rather low RPM.
Now I have this spindle, and a Hitachi X200 inverter.
The very first tests that I did was seeing at what lowest RPM I can run it.
To my amazement, it was no problem at all running even it as low as 200RPM.
At first it had very little torque at this speed. After playing with some parameters of the inverter, I managed to throw the full 10Amps while turning 200RPM.
Of coarse it will start to heat up rather quickly, but this is the advantage of water cooling. If you have sufficient pump and radiator, there is no problem.
I have about 1 liter water reservoir, and a small radiator with a fan.
I can run it at 200RPM, 10Amps for more than half an hour. It becomes pretty warm to touch, and the reservoir temperature climbs to about 45 centigrade, but that's the hottest it gets. I can continue to run it, and it won't get any hotter. I think that putting a bigger radiator would reduce the temperature even further.

I tried to mill steel (low carbon) with 3/8 carbide endmill, 0.1mm DOC at 800RPM. It ate it without any difficulty.
Aluminum is even better.

This is an old thread but worth replying

That is not going to last very long if you keep running at that speed, the overheating will destroy it in no time

[mactec54]

I know this an old thread, but I would like to get "your thoughts and input" ( from others as well) if possible on running my 2.2 kw water cooled spindle.
I have a 3hp VFD Huanyang... will the above parameter work on this type of VFD?

Are my expectations reasonable listed below:

I'm working on a 4:1 gear reduction drive for it to help with powering low speed RPMs.
I really don't need 20,000 rpm.so 4:1 ratio (5,000 RPM tops) is good enough for me which will also allow me to run much slower RPMs..
I'm hoping that I'll be able to tap aluminum 3/8" UNC at about 300 RPM.
Do you think from your experience that is reasonable to expect that from this 4:1 drive setup?

Any advise or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Sometimes old threads are worth a reply

The Parameter above are for anyone to use at the risk of damaging there spindle and VFD Drive

Using a 4:1 reduction should work well I don't know about the tapping though, if it stall you will take out the spindle, stalling is the main problem with these spindles

Why don't you thread mill your holes much better than trying to power tap them and will do a better job, you could do this without the reduction at 8,000 RPM to 12,000RPM

[cnc-xray]

Sometimes old threads are worth a reply

The Parameter above are for anyone to use at the risk of damaging there spindle and VFD Drive

Using a 4:1 reduction should work well I don't know about the tapping though, if it stall you will take out the spindle, stalling is the main problem with these spindles

Why don't you thread mill your holes much better than trying to power tap them and will do a better job, you could do this without the reduction at 8,000 RPM to 12,000RPM

Thank you for your response.

Please note that it seems that isakl got his to work for a long time at very low speeds "without" a reduction drive.

Thread milling certainly is an option and I would need to go that way for larger taps. I've done lots of that with bigger tap holes on bigger machines.
The 3/8 UNC is the largest that I was thinking of using power tapping with this spindle and I could limit to smaller if it's still not a reasonable option.
I was hoping that a 3/8" tap would break instead of stalling the spindle which I think should be the size limiting factor for power tapping. 3/8" might still be too big for this spindle setup, but most of my tapping will be much smaller which makes thread milling probably a little dicey.

With that in mind...
I'm willing to give it a try if there is any chance that it could work for small hole tapping (max tap size to be determined).
In your opinion:
What would be the best lowest speed "parameter settings" for my drive set as was explained taking into account the 4:1 reduction?
What do you think would be the largest small tap that the spindle would be able to break at low speeds before stalling?
I do a lot of mixtures of 1/4"and M3 tapping on other machines, so I need to figure out where thread milling becomes the only option for this setup.
I definitely agree that stalling the spindle should not be an option.

Can you give your thoughts on why isakl got his to work for a long time at very low speeds "without" a reduction drive?

[mactec54]

Thank you for your response.

Please note that it seems that isakl got his to work for a long time at very low speeds "without" a reduction drive.

Thread milling certainly is an option and I would need to go that way for larger taps. I've done lots of that with bigger tap holes on bigger machines.
The 3/8 UNC is the largest that I was thinking of using power tapping with this spindle and I could limit to smaller if it's still not a reasonable option.
I was hoping that a 3/8" tap would break instead of stalling the spindle which I think should be the size limiting factor for power tapping. 3/8" might still be too big for this spindle setup, but most of my tapping will be much smaller which makes thread milling probably a little dicey.

With that in mind...
I'm willing to give it a try if there is any chance that it could work for small hole tapping (max tap size to be determined).
In your opinion:
What would be the best lowest speed "parameter settings" for my drive set as was explained taking into account the 4:1 reduction?
What do you think would be the largest small tap that the spindle would be able to break at low speeds before stalling?
I do a lot of mixtures of 1/4"and M3 tapping on other machines, so I need to figure out where thread milling becomes the only option for this setup.
I definitely agree that stalling the spindle should not be an option.

Can you give your thoughts on why isakl got his to work for a long time at very low speeds "without" a reduction drive?

I'm sure his spindle did not last very long, at 200 RPM, they don't like over heating which he was having and if you look at his parameter settings he was not running at the speeds he said he was so some Bs just right there 60Hz was his lowest speed Parameter in the list he posted which is 4,000 RPM

[cnc-xray]

I'm sure his spindle did not last very long, at 200 RPM, they don't like over heating which he was having and if you look at his parameter settings he was not running at the speeds he said he was so some Bs just right there 60Hz was his lowest speed Parameter in the list he posted which is 4,000 RPM

OK... With a 4:1 reduction what is the "slowest spindle speed" you would suggest to still get enough torque to break a 3 flute 1/4" machine tap.
Could you provide me with the correct parameter settings for the VFD I'm using?
From some post I read... it looks like you have a lot of experience with these Chinese Spindles and VFDs.

Here is some info on my VFD:
Type:YL620-A-2.2KW 220V
Input: AC 220V 50/60HZ
Output: 10A 4.0KVA

[mactec54]

OK... With a 4:1 reduction what is the "slowest spindle speed" you would suggest to still get enough torque to break a 3 flute 1/4" machine tap.
Could you provide me with the correct parameter settings for the VFD I'm using?
From some post I read... it looks like you have a lot of experience with these Chinese Spindles and VFDs.

Every VFD Drive is different most spindles are the same, I don't think it would have enough torque to break the tap at any speed , the minimum speed for most of these 2 Pole Spindles is 6,000 RPM = 1500 RPM with your reduction you can only but try and see what happens, Ideal you rollform threads in aluminum then you have much better thread strength, to rollform you need a different type of Spindle Motor which would be 4 pole low RPM although 1500 RPM would be ok for 1/4"-20

How are you going to synchronize the Spindle and Feed to rigid Tap

[cnc-xray]

Every VFD Drive is different most spindles are the same, I don't think it would have enough torque to break the tap at any speed , the minimum speed for most of these 2 Pole Spindles is 6,000 RPM = 1500 RPM with your reduction you can only but try and see what happens, Ideal you rollform threads in aluminum then you have much better thread strength, to rollform you need a different type of Spindle Motor which would be 4 pole low RPM although 1500 RPM would be ok for 1/4"-20

How are you going to synchronize the Spindle and Feed to rigid Tap

That is my plan to synchronize the Spindle and Feed for rigid Tapping, but have not yet worked out the details for that.
Do you have info or recommendations on that as well?

I know some guys do 1/4" tapping at 3000 RPM+ but I need to build myself and the machine up to that first!

I posted the info on my VFD on my previous post to help with the correct parameters needed, and again... I'm willing to try.

Greatly appreciate your input and help.

[mactec54]

That is my plan to synchronize the Spindle and Feed for rigid Tapping, but have not yet worked out the details for that.
Do you have info or recommendations on that as well?

I know some guys do 1/4" tapping at 3000 RPM+ but I need to build myself and the machine up to that first!

I posted the info on my VFD on my previous post to help with the correct parameters needed, and again... I'm willing to try.

Greatly appreciate your input and help.

Yes Taping at 3000 RPM is very doable, this is a very different machine than a Hobby built machine

You need an Encoder mounted on the spindle that can handle your max RPM and a control that has an Encoder input for spindle control and can do rigid Tapping or threading

[cnc-xray]

Yes Taping at 3000 RPM is very doable, this is a very different machine than a Hobby built machine

You need an Encoder mounted on the spindle that can handle your max RPM and a control that has an Encoder input for spindle control and can do rigid Tapping or threading

The machine I'm working on is more of a mill than a router, with an automatic 12 tool changer I designed. It is very rigid...
I've looked at 6000 rpm encoders and it seems that they are available for less than $200 (still need to do research on that).

I still would like the parameters you would suggest for my application and VFD type.
Can you help with that?

Again... here is some info on my VFD:
Type:YL620-A-2.2KW 220V
Input: AC 220V 50/60HZ
Output: 10A 4.0KVA

[mactec54]

The machine I'm working on is more of a mill than a router, with an automatic 12 tool changer I designed. It is very rigid...
I've looked at 6000 rpm encoders and it seems that they are available for less than $200 (still need to do research on that).

I still would like the parameters you would suggest for my application and VFD type.
Can you help with that?

Again... here is some info on my VFD:
Type:YL620-A-2.2KW 220V
Input: AC 220V 50/60HZ
Output: 10A 4.0KVA

What are the motor spec's you can only set the VFD to the motor spec's

If your motor can run higher than 6,000 RPM then that encoder would not be much good

You need to start your own thread

[cnc-xray]

What are the motor spec's you can only set the VFD to the motor spec's

If your motor can run higher than 6,000 RPM then that encoder would not be much good

You need to start your own thread

I would start a thread but I only now need the parameters for the VFD
I think I can work with 4:1 ratio at 6000RPM = 1500RPM Lowest Spindle Speed

Motor:
80x200 2.2KW 220V 8.5A 400HZ Water Cooling
They Claim: Speed:0-24000rpm at 0-400HZ

[mactec54]

I would start a thread but I only now need the parameters for the VFD
I think I can work with 4:1 ratio at 6000RPM = 1500RPM Lowest Spindle Speed

Motor:
80x200 2.2KW 220V 8.5A 400HZ Water Cooling
They Claim: Speed:0-24000rpm at 0-400HZ

They all run from 0-24,000 they just missing the 6,000 minimum speed you may be able to go lower depending on who the manufacture of your spindle is I have some that will run at 3000 RPM but these are higher torque and a different built motor than the normal

The VFD Drive you have has not been as good as some of the other VFD Drives I will look and see what I have for that Drive I have done there Parameters before

[mactec54]

I would start a thread but I only now need the parameters for the VFD
I think I can work with 4:1 ratio at 6000RPM = 1500RPM Lowest Spindle Speed

Motor:
80x200 2.2KW 220V 8.5A 400HZ Water Cooling
They Claim: Speed:0-24000rpm at 0-400HZ

This should get you started

Mactec54
Spindle Cable IGUS CF6-15-04 PH 401-438-7270
Huajiang VF Drive
YL 600/620 220 2.2Kw Water Cooled
P00.00=400

P00.01=0

P00.04=400

P00.05=400

P00.06=110%

P00.07=140

P00.08=35%

P00.09=120

P00.10=30%

P01.00=1

P01.03=100%

P01.04=110%

P01.08=110%

P03.08=120

P03.09=400

P06.01=8 ( Acceleration Adjustable )

P06.02=8 ( Deceleration Adjustable )

P0700=400

P07.08=0

P11.01=220 ( May be 2 for 220v if you can't change it to 220 )

P11.02=9

P11.03=400

P12.00=9

P12.01=220

P12.02=2

P12.03=6.5

P12.05=10

P12.06=220

[cnc-xray]

This should get you started

Mactec54
Spindle Cable IGUS CF6-15-04 PH 401-438-7270
Huajiang VF Drive
YL 600/620 220 2.2Kw Water Cooled
P00.00=400

P00.01=0

P00.04=400

P00.05=400

P00.06=110%

P00.07=140

P00.08=35%

P00.09=120

P00.10=30%

P01.00=1

P01.03=100%

P01.04=110%

P01.08=110%

P03.08=120

P03.09=400

P06.01=8 ( Acceleration Adjustable )

P06.02=8 ( Deceleration Adjustable )

P0700=400

P07.08=0

P11.01=220 ( May be 2 for 220v if you can't change it to 220 )

P11.02=9

P11.03=400

P12.00=9

P12.01=220

P12.02=2

P12.03=6.5

P12.05=10

P12.06=220

Thank you very much Mactec54
This is very helpful

[cnc-xray]

This should get you started

Mactec54
Spindle Cable IGUS CF6-15-04 PH 401-438-7270
Huajiang VF Drive
YL 600/620 220 2.2Kw Water Cooled
P00.00=400

P00.01=0

P00.04=400

P00.05=400

P00.06=110%

P00.07=140

P00.08=35%

P00.09=120

P00.10=30%

P01.00=1

P01.03=100%

P01.04=110%

P01.08=110%

P03.08=120

P03.09=400

P06.01=8 ( Acceleration Adjustable )

P06.02=8 ( Deceleration Adjustable )

P0700=400

P07.08=0

P11.01=220 ( May be 2 for 220v if you can't change it to 220 )

P11.02=9

P11.03=400

P12.00=9

P12.01=220

P12.02=2

P12.03=6.5

P12.05=10

P12.06=220

I just compared these parameters to an old post showing parameters you provided for allaces for the same VFD = 7200RPM and they seem to be the same as the ones you provided to me for 6000RPM.

I'm including the allaces parameters below...

Please advise.

Also... what parameter(s) actually define the minimum RPM?

Re: Spindle Recommendation
Originally Posted by allaces

Do you have the parameters for me?


Yes I do have them ready, but make sure all your wiring is correct before you try and run it and enter the Parameters


Parameters listed will give you 7200 RPM


I would like you to verify the wiring with photos you only get one shot at this so you want it to be right


Mactec54
Spindle Cable IGUS CF6-15-04 PH 401-438-7270


Huajiang VFD Drive


YL 600/620 220 2.2Kw Water Cooled


P00.00=400


P00.01=0


P00.04=400


P00.05=400


P00.06=110%


P00.07=140


P00.08=35%


P00.09=120


P00.10=30%


P01.00=1


P01.03=100%


P01.04=110%


P01.08=110%


P03.08=120


P03.09=400


P06.01=8 ( Acceleration Adjustable )


P06.02=8 ( Deceleration Adjustable )


P0700=400


P07.08=0


P11.01=220


P11.02=9


P11.03=400


P12.00=9


P12.01=220


P12.02=2


P12.03=6.5


P12.05=10


P12.06=220

[mactec54]

I just compared these parameters to an old post showing parameters you provided for allaces for the same VFD = 7200RPM and they seem to be the same as the ones you provided to me for 6000RPM.

I'm including the allaces parameters below...

Please advise.

Also... what parameter(s) actually define the minimum RPM?

Re: Spindle Recommendation
Originally Posted by allaces

Do you have the parameters for me?


Yes I do have them ready, but make sure all your wiring is correct before you try and run it and enter the Parameters


Parameters listed will give you 7200 RPM


I would like you to verify the wiring with photos you only get one shot at this so you want it to be right


Mactec54
Spindle Cable IGUS CF6-15-04 PH 401-438-7270


Huajiang VFD Drive


YL 600/620 220 2.2Kw Water Cooled


P00.00=400


P00.01=0


P00.04=400


P00.05=400


P00.06=110%


P00.07=140


P00.08=35%


P00.09=120


P00.10=30%


P01.00=1


P01.03=100%


P01.04=110%


P01.08=110%


P03.08=120


P03.09=400


P06.01=8 ( Acceleration Adjustable )


P06.02=8 ( Deceleration Adjustable )


P0700=400


P07.08=0


P11.01=220


P11.02=9


P11.03=400


P12.00=9


P12.01=220


P12.02=2


P12.03=6.5


P12.05=10


P12.06=220

P00.09=100 for 6000RPM
P03.08=100
P03.09=400

[cnc-xray]

P00.09=100 for 6000RPM
P03.08=100
P03.09=400

Thank you mactec54... I feel better now.

I have a Tapmatic Tapping Head that I use on my drill presses, but I never thought of using it this way.

[mkaluza2]

@isakl
Can ou write something about the life of your spindle?