Yaskawa VFD Settings?

[Todd Zuercher]

Help!

We have a CNC router with a 13.5kw HSD ES988 spindle. The machine came with an HSD VFD that failed. HSD no longer supplies or supports their VFDs, and the machine manufacturer is being less than helpful because I chose not to purchace the repacement drive from them at more than 3X the normal retail price. I am trying to replace the HSD drive with a Yaskawa CIMR-F7U40151F-056 drive (15kw drive with 1000hz firmware). The machine also has a 40ohm 1.2kw braking resistor. The spindle is 4 pole with a max speed of 24000rpm (800hz) 380v 6kw, base frequency of 12000rpm 400hz 380v 13.5kw (see attached motor data sheet)

The Yaskawa CIMR-F7U40151F-056 drive (15kw drive with 1000hz firmware) is not working out for me with the settings I’m trying. I set the parameters to what I think I’m reading they should be in the spindle’s manual, but some things are unclear. Right now when I try to start the spindle with the frequency set to 300hz, the spindle starts, but accelerates very slowly only reaching about 90hz before the drive shuts down after about 10 seconds due to over current (it is pulling about 40amps according to the VFD’s screen )

I set the following parameters settings in the quick setup menu. (All other parameters are set to defaults, to the best of my knowledge.)

B1-03 = 0 (Stopping Method Selection, 0=Ramp to Stop)
C1-01 = 6 sec (Acceleration Time)
C1-02 = 6 sec (Decceleration Time)
E1-01 = 480V (Input Voltage Setting)
E1-03 = F (V/F Pattern Selection)
E1-04 = 800Hz (Maximum Output Frequency)
E1-05 = 380V (Maximum Output Voltage)
E1-06 = 400Hz (Base Frequency)
E1-09 = 1.5Hz (Minumum Output Frequency) (I don’t know what this should be set to so I left as default)
E1-13 = 380V (Base Voltage)
E2-01 = 32A (Motor Rated Current)
E2-04 = 4 (Motor Poles)
E2-11 = 13.5 (Motor Rated Output)
L1-01 = 1 (Motor Overload protection, 1=standard fan cooled)
L3-04 = 0 (Stall Prevention Selection, 0=disabled)

Do you have any suggestions of what parameters I may be setting wrong, or other parameters I need to set and their values?

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[mactec54]

Help!

We have a CNC router with a 13.5kw HSD ES988 spindle. The machine came with an HSD VFD that failed. HSD no longer supplies or supports their VFDs, and the machine manufacturer is being less than helpful because I chose not to purchace the repacement drive from them at more than 3X the normal retail price. I am trying to replace the HSD drive with a Yaskawa CIMR-F7U40151F-056 drive (15kw drive with 1000hz firmware). The machine also has a 40ohm 1.2kw braking resistor. The spindle is 4 pole with a max speed of 24000rpm (800hz) 380v 6kw, base frequency of 12000rpm 400hz 380v 13.5kw (see attached motor data sheet)

The Yaskawa CIMR-F7U40151F-056 drive (15kw drive with 1000hz firmware) is not working out for me with the settings I’m trying. I set the parameters to what I think I’m reading they should be in the spindle’s manual, but some things are unclear. Right now when I try to start the spindle with the frequency set to 300hz, the spindle starts, but accelerates very slowly only reaching about 90hz before the drive shuts down after about 10 seconds due to over current (it is pulling about 40amps according to the VFD’s screen )

I set the following parameters settings in the quick setup menu. (All other parameters are set to defaults, to the best of my knowledge.)

B1-03 = 0 (Stopping Method Selection, 0=Ramp to Stop)
C1-01 = 6 sec (Acceleration Time)
C1-02 = 6 sec (Decceleration Time)
E1-01 = 480V (Input Voltage Setting)
E1-03 = F (V/F Pattern Selection)
E1-04 = 800Hz (Maximum Output Frequency)
E1-05 = 380V (Maximum Output Voltage)
E1-06 = 400Hz (Base Frequency)
E1-09 = 1.5Hz (Minumum Output Frequency) (I don’t know what this should be set to so I left as default)
E1-13 = 380V (Base Voltage)
E2-01 = 32A (Motor Rated Current)
E2-04 = 4 (Motor Poles)
E2-11 = 13.5 (Motor Rated Output)
L1-01 = 1 (Motor Overload protection, 1=standard fan cooled)
L3-04 = 0 (Stall Prevention Selection, 0=disabled)

Do you have any suggestions of what parameters I may be setting wrong, or other parameters I need to set and their values?

Your base Frequency may need to be E1-06= 800 I will check what else you need, if you keep the Base Frequency at 400 E1-13-190

[Todd Zuercher]

I thought the Base Frequency was supposed to be set to the lowest frequency the motor is ratted to get full voltage? (Which is 400hz on the motor name plate.) Be nice if Yaskawa would put a definition of what "Base Frequency" is or should be someplace in their manual.

[mactec54]

I thought the Base Frequency was supposed to be set to the lowest frequency the motor is ratted to get full voltage? (Which is 400hz on the motor name plate.) Be nice if Yaskawa would put a definition of what "Base Frequency" is or should be someplace in their manual.

Yes correct, I was just looking at the manual your base may need be 400, in most other VFD Drives the Base is the max output Frequency for the Motor your manual tells it different though! I'm doing a list that will need to be set, I changed my post set the voltage at 190 for E1-13 E106=400 these to work together

What is your input voltage or Ac supply Voltage to the VFD Drive.

[Todd Zuercher]

My supply is 480v.

I got a reply from Yaskawa Tech support. The solution was setting E1-07 Mid Output Frequency and E1-08 Mid Output Voltage to the motor label values.
Setting them to these did the trick.
E1-07 = 233Hz
E1-08 = 220v

[mactec54]

My supply is 480v.

I got a reply from Yaskawa Tech support. The solution was setting E1-07 Mid Output Frequency and E1-08 Mid Output Voltage to the motor label values.
Setting them to these did the trick.
E1-07 = 233Hz
E1-08 = 220v

Correct, there are other Parameters that you also have to set, you can use vector control with this VFD Drive also which will make your spindle have better torque control and run smoother. once you have all the main basic Parameters set you can do Auto Tune and it will adjust any other Parameters that may need to be set

[mactec54]

My supply is 480v.

I got a reply from Yaskawa Tech support. The solution was setting E1-07 Mid Output Frequency and E1-08 Mid Output Voltage to the motor label values.
Setting them to these did the trick.
E1-07 = 233Hz
E1-08 = 220v

Ask the Tec how he arrived at these numbers as the Hz to Voltage ratio is incorrect for this setting!

E1-07=233Hz
E1-08=220v ??? should be 110.67v or 111v if you use 233Hz would work, these Parameters are all calculated using V/H Ratio if not it will be out of wack just using a random number from the motor name plate like this, refer to if you were using the spindle at 220v and 233Hz = 7000RPM

[Todd Zuercher]

Ask the Tec how he arrived at these numbers as the Hz to Voltage ratio is incorrect for this setting!

E1-07=233Hz
E1-08=220v ??? should be 110.67v or 111v if you use 233Hz would work, these Parameters are all calculated using V/H Ratio if not it will be out of wack just using a random number from the motor name plate like this, refer to if you were using the spindle at 220v and 233Hz = 7000RPM

Actually the Tech suggested I try, and was the first thing he suggested. (His exact words were "First thing I'd try is...)
E1-07=200Hz
E1-08=190v
(which also worked)

But I saw in the first column of the motor specs in the manual said 220v @ 233Hz (7000rpm) and tried it and it and have left it there. This was in the manual that came with the spindle. I see now that the spec. sheet I attached below (HSD e-mailed this to me recently) is slightly different and lists 225v @ 233Hz

Also when I opened the E1-07 and E1-08 parameters for the first time to set them (These are not on the Quick Set parameter menu I used initially) they had the values of 150Hz and 190V, and that was the problem too many volts at too low RPM. I under stand how that would cause the over-current, but don't understand why it caused the slow acceleration making it hang in the over current zone when I had commanded 300hz.

Well, it looks like I'm not out of the woods yet. Now I can start/stop the motor from the drive's control panel, but I can't seem to get to respond to commands from the CNC control. Pressing the Local/Remote button causes the Seq and Ref LEDs to light up, but nothing happens.
Checking the input signals on the drive everything seems to be working correctly. On the Operator display of the VFD, U1-01 shows the correct frequency commanded by the control, and U1-10 shows the correct status for the FWD/REV inputs (00000000 for when stopped and 00000001 when forward is commanded), so the drive is seeing the commands, but the thing won't start? (I have never had this much trouble trying to get a VFD to work.)

[Todd Zuercher]

I figured out the reason it was ignoring the commands from the control. This was a used drive, and I neglected to load all the default settings before beginning. There were some parameters for the digital inputs set for 3wire input rather than the default 2 wire input. Resetting them to their defaults fixed the issue. That said this drive has one very nice feature, it has a menu item to display only parameters that are modified from their default settings. The Yaskawa tech asked me to list all the modified parameters and their settings. And there was my answer at the bottom of the list glaring at me. "Hey, I didn't set those settings! Why aren't they at their defaults?" Palm to forhead.

[mactec54]

I figured out the reason it was ignoring the commands from the control. This was a used drive, and I neglected to load all the default settings before beginning. There were some parameters for the digital inputs set for 3wire input rather than the default 2 wire input. Resetting them to their defaults fixed the issue. That said this drive has one very nice feature, it has a menu item to display only parameters that are modified from their default settings. The Yaskawa tech asked me to list all the modified parameters and their settings. And there was my answer at the bottom of the list glaring at me. "Hey, I didn't set those settings! Why aren't they at their defaults?" Palm to forhead.

You must understand those Parameter settings you can't just use any number and it will work; you have an expensive spindle, and it could be damaged if these parameters are not set correctly.

What you have is incorrect, you have to use a calculated number, or you may damage your spindle, any number will run, as you have found out, these 2 Parameters work together and must be calculated to give the spindle the correct Hz to Voltage Ratio which with your 380v @ 800Hz the ratio is .475, so 200Hz=95V not 190v this Raito must be maintained so if a Hz Parameter is changed then the Voltage must be also changed or you will have a messed up frequency / Torque curve

E1-07=200Hz
E1-08=190v ?? 95v

E1-07=400Hz
E1-08=190v

[mactec54]

Actually the Tech suggested I try, and was the first thing he suggested. (His exact words were "First thing I'd try is...)
E1-07=200Hz
E1-08=190v
(which also worked)

But I saw in the first column of the motor specs in the manual said 220v @ 233Hz (7000rpm) and tried it and it and have left it there. This was in the manual that came with the spindle. I see now that the spec. sheet I attached below (HSD e-mailed this to me recently) is slightly different and lists 225v @ 233Hz

Also when I opened the E1-07 and E1-08 parameters for the first time to set them (These are not on the Quick Set parameter menu I used initially) they had the values of 150Hz and 190V, and that was the problem too many volts at too low RPM. I under stand how that would cause the over-current, but don't understand why it caused the slow acceleration making it hang in the over current zone when I had commanded 300hz.



Well, it looks like I'm not out of the woods yet. Now I can start/stop the motor from the drive's control panel, but I can't seem to get to respond to commands from the CNC control. Pressing the Local/Remote button causes the Seq and Ref LEDs to light up, but nothing happens.
Checking the input signals on the drive everything seems to be working correctly. On the Operator display of the VFD, U1-01 shows the correct frequency commanded by the control, and U1-10 shows the correct status for the FWD/REV inputs (00000000 for when stopped and 00000001 when forward is commanded), so the drive is seeing the commands, but the thing won't start? (I have never had this much trouble trying to get a VFD to work.)

They are not in the quick set menu because that is all that is needed for a normal Ac 3Phase motor 50Hz / 60Hz, all VFD Drives are by default for a 50Hz / 60Hz motor.

Over-current is what is happening when these parameters are not set correct, this over current is what damages the motor.

Those numbers are not related to your VFD Drive settings the only settings on the Spindle are for the Amps Voltage RPM and Frequency # Poles, you only use 380v 800Hz Amps and RPM 4 Pole from these specs nothing else applies, they are used for different input voltages.

This has to start at from the very first Parameter up to the 800Hz your very first Frequency should be 20hz with a voltage of 9.5v this is the start of the Frequency / Torque Curve

You can draw a graph as per the manual using 0- 380v and 0-800Hz draw a line between the 0Hz to 800Hz then fill in the blanks, and once you get the frequency you want to use in the Parameters then you can calculate the Voltage Ratio its quite simple, people make it more complicated than it has to be.

[Todd Zuercher]

They are not in the quick set menu because that is all that is needed for a normal Ac 3Phase motor 50Hz / 60Hz, all VFD Drives are by default for a 50Hz / 60Hz motor.

Over-current is what is happening when these parameters are not set correct, this over current is what damages the motor.

Those numbers are not related to your VFD Drive settings the only settings on the Spindle are for the Amps Voltage RPM and Frequency # Poles, you only use 380v 800Hz Amps and RPM 4 Pole from these specs nothing else applies, they are used for different input voltages.

This has to start at from the very first Parameter up to the 800Hz your very first Frequency should be 20hz with a voltage of 9.5v this is the start of the Frequency / Torque Curve

You can draw a graph as per the manual using 0- 380v and 0-800Hz draw a line between the 0Hz to 800Hz then fill in the blanks, and once you get the frequency you want to use in the Parameters then you can calculate the Voltage Ratio its quite simple, people make it more complicated than it has to be.

If the mid range frequency/volt curve was supposed to be linear there would be no reason to need to enter mid range values for these, and the drive would simply extrapolate them. The dive has the option to enter these mid range values so that a non linear curve can be established. If this spindle's base frequency was also it's max frequency (800hz) then what you were saying about the mid range probably needing to be about 95v at 200hz might be true. But I don't think this is the case with this spindle. According to the spindle's literature its peak power ratings are from 400-500hz at 380v and power and torque drop off appreciably as it approaches it's max speed at 800hz 380v. This is why I don't believe 800hz is the correct base voltage for this spindle. If I were to set the base Hz and volts for 800hz and 380 and extrapolate that linearly to zero, I would loose most of the motors peak power from 400-500hz.

Regardless, the fact is I was getting over currents because of non-default values set for the midrange Hz and Volt settings that were way out of line and that I had not set, but should have checked.

[mactec54]

If the mid range frequency/volt curve was supposed to be linear there would be no reason to need to enter mid range values for these, and the drive would simply extrapolate them. The dive has the option to enter these mid range values so that a non linear curve can be established. If this spindle's base frequency was also it's max frequency (800hz) then what you were saying about the mid range probably needing to be about 95v at 200hz might be true. But I don't think this is the case with this spindle. According to the spindle's literature its peak power ratings are from 400-500hz at 380v and power and torque drop off appreciably as it approaches it's max speed at 800hz 380v. This is why I don't believe 800hz is the correct base voltage for this spindle. If I were to set the base Hz and volts for 800hz and 380 and extrapolate that linearly to zero, I would loose most of the motors peak power from 400-500hz.

Regardless, the fact is I was getting over currents because of non-default values set for the midrange Hz and Volt settings that were way out of line and that I had not set, but should have checked.

You normally would be setting it so it is linear to start with using all the Parameters, run the spindle checking the temperature then can adjust an offset to give it a higher Torque curve in the mid-range and then monitor the temperature again.

It's the same with every spindle I have installed hundreds of spindles, yours is no different, you can set it however 'you want, or believe it should be, if you are using V/F mode the Parameters need to be set correctly, if you are using Sensor less Vector Control the mid-range Parameters are not so important, as the Torque is being closely controlled for the speed being used, by the Vector Control.