How fast can I run this motor?

[Al_The_Man]

Same motor can be wired for low or high voltage, so that line is for the same motor.

Connections appear to be either series or parallel windings, rather than Star-Delta method.

[mactec54]

Same motor can be wired for low or high voltage, so that line is for the same motor. Not sure why they don't post the same chart for 220 V.

They do spec the 230v / 460v motor, what you are looking at in the chart is the specs for the 460v Wye Circuit

[Al_The_Man]

According to the hookup they are both star connected.
Series or parallel.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
matec is right you can get a very reasonably priced 24000 rpm spindle but such spindles while they go fast have low torque.

I presume that OP has asked that a motor do 5000rpm he has in mind what torque is required. I see in the catalog listing there is a rating BD torque of 28.5 ft-lb.
I'd like to know what BD, or is it BO or something, I can't distinguish it, torque is? It does not seem that likely that is rated continuous torque but maybe overload torque?
Still, that's quite impressive, I can well imagine such a spindle powering a hobby mill for cutting steel.

The specs say 2hp for the same motor, so guessing that means 2 hp at 1800 rpm:
torque=(2 x 774) / (1800/60 *2* pi)
= 8.2Nm

I have a servo driven spindle of 1.8kW and it has 6.1Nm (cont) torque at rated 3500 rpm, and I have used it to handily drive 16mm endmills in steel at modest
metal removal rates.

If OP is planning on milling steel or use maybe a face mill then I would guess that this motor would be better suited that the 24000 rpm water cooled spindle that matec linked to
no matter the price.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
this is a 2kW Delta servo, 6.37Nm at 3000 rpm (rated) with a maximum speed, at somewhat reduced torque (3.8Nm), of 5000rpm.
This kit includes the motor and its matching servo drive, so no VFD required. Note that this servo drive should have three phase 230VAC but would still run OK at a pinch
with single phase 230VAC.

https://www.fasttobuy.com/delta-2kw-...nc_p33936.html

I imagine this would be more expensive than the combination that OP is interested in however I can attest that using a servo as a spindle motor works well, whether it
justifies the cost is another matter.

Craig

[mactec54]

Hi,
matec is right you can get a very reasonably priced 24000 rpm spindle but such spindles while they go fast have low torque.

I presume that OP has asked that a motor do 5000rpm he has in mind what torque is required. I see in the catalog listing there is a rating BD torque of 28.5 ft-lb.
I'd like to know what BD, or is it BO or something, I can't distinguish it, torque is? It does not seem that likely that is rated continuous torque but maybe overload torque?
Still, that's quite impressive, I can well imagine such a spindle powering a hobby mill for cutting steel.

The specs say 2hp for the same motor, so guessing that means 2 hp at 1800 rpm:
torque=(2 x 774) / (1800/60 *2* pi)
= 8.2Nm

I have a servo driven spindle of 1.8kW and it has 6.1Nm (cont) torque at rated 3500 rpm, and I have used it to handily drive 16mm endmills in steel at modest
metal removal rates.

If OP is planning on milling steel or use maybe a face mill then I would guess that this motor would be better suited that the 24000 rpm water cooled spindle that matec linked to
no matter the price.

Craig

This was never anything to do with the Op's motor, the 24,000 RPM spindle motor I posted that was for servtec to show him that you can get an inexpensive spindle that can run and last at high RPM. the 5,000 RPM Motor the torque will drop from the base speed of 1,800 RPM all the way up to the 5,000 RPM if this is for a small lathe then he should get a 5Hp if it is for a mill 3Hp will work 5Hp is better, depending on how robust his machine is, or what he wants to use it for, the list price of these motors the 3Hp $2800 a regular inverter duty motor can be had for $500 to $600 and will do the same job.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
well this motor may be nice but $2800....it sure would want to be nice. The 2kW servo is looking like a winner at the moment at $895 including motor, drive and cables.

Craig

[hanermo]

To op:
The motor can surely be run at 5000 rpm at some load, probably for very many hours - 10.000 hours working life is common -
at not too much load
not too much acceleration / deceleration
not too much load during the acceleration

E:
A machine tool spindle like Haas uses about full power, typically 40 Hp, during acceleration to get upto its max rpm, typically 8000 rpm, thereabouts (some small ones higher, some geared big ones lower).
Takes about 2-4 secs, typical. Adjustable.
After that it typically uses about 3 kW of power cutting steel or stuff.
But if You have the spindle only cutting for 1-10 secs, then stop it, swap tools, then re-start, you are placing a tremendous peak thermal load on the motor, the spindle, and the electronics.
Failure rates go up 10x++.

Your motor is very good, very expensive and can probably deliver the full rated power for 10.000 work hours - in more or less steady state.
Taking into account cooling, at 460V (380V) the cooling is 4x more efficient than around 230V. Heat is amps squared.
Lifetime is about heat vs power divided.
Extra heat lowers lifetime logarithmically.

My experience tells me that the motor would deliver about 1/3 nameplate power at 5000 rpm at 230 V +- for 10.000 hours and low peak acceleration deceleration.
And perhaps 500 hours of life at full rated power - 230 V - with heavy peak use.
2000 hours lifetime at full power at 5000 rpm at 460 V.

Large spindle motors cutting mostly plastics and or light cuts in steel had seemingly indefinite lifetimes - at Haas.
Over 25 years and 10.000 ++ machines, mostly nothing ever failed at light loads and cool environments.

Exactly the same in electronics and power supplies, over 200.000 use-hours experience and hundreds/thousands of fans and power supplies, the failure rate went up astronomically with heat.

That said ..
My new AC servo motors, on my lathe main motor, are over 12-20x more efficient than the original (excellent) Bridgeport 3-phase motor I have.
They typically last 10k hours in heavy industrial continuous or near continuous use.

Because they are so good, aka efficient, the heat buildup is vastly less, and the mfct have learned how to reduce failures (mostly very clever electronics, recirculating back emf, skewed rotors, exotic rotor material magnet doping, stuff).
Tend to last 10.000 hours including heavy use of any kind, given ventilation for motor and electronics.
The AC servo is also at least 10x-20x better in every possible sense.

The 3-phase VFD motor will accelerate to max rpm in about 1 sec (0.5 sec) (typical), 3600/1800 rpm.
The AC servo will accelerate to 3000 rpm in 0.01 secs, 10 ms (20 ms is a sensible minimum), no load.
About 50 better.

The AC servo will maintain any given rpm or load at about 10x faster rates than the 3-phase motor, and use the same 50:1 advantage in torque and reaction speed.
AC servos update at 500 kHz rates, VFDs at 1200 HZ, difference 40:1.
The AC servo will also use 3x nameplate power for upto 1.5 - 2 - 3 secs to deliver the commanded rpm/position/torque.
In effect, the AC servo has 3x nameplate power and more than 3x nameplate torque for over a second to overcome any load issues.

The AC servo typically at 10.000 counts/3000 rpm/500 kHz -100 counts error rate will fault at 0.2 ms, before any damage is done, in any hard mechanical crash.
(500 kHz / 100 = 5 kHz = 0.2 ms = 0.0002 s).

Take it as You will.
The AC servos are vastly better, but You buy the servo motor, cables, electronics as a package and cannot later mix/match stuff.
It´s unlikely any of the current cheapish china made servo motor combos will have any spares 5 years later.

But their new motor will be better and cheaper and for the money saved you can always swap to a new one - 3 times.
For cnc use I would always and only pick the servo.
Performance and costs drive.

For running an industrial conveyor belt in a heavy installation I would always buy the VFD + 3 phase motor.
And upsize the motor and VFD a bit.
Reliability and future maintenance drives.

[mcphill]

My new AC servo motors, on my lathe main motor, are over 12-20x more efficient than the original (excellent) Bridgeport 3-phase motor I have.
They typically last 10k hours in heavy industrial continuous or near continuous use.

Because they are so good, aka efficient, the heat buildup is vastly less, and the mfct have learned how to reduce failures (mostly very clever electronics, recirculating back emf, skewed rotors, exotic rotor material magnet doping, stuff).
Tend to last 10.000 hours including heavy use of any kind, given ventilation for motor and electronics.
The AC servo is also at least 10x-20x better in every possible sense.

The 3-phase VFD motor will accelerate to max rpm in about 1 sec (0.5 sec) (typical), 3600/1800 rpm.
The AC servo will accelerate to 3000 rpm in 0.01 secs, 10 ms (20 ms is a sensible minimum), no load.
About 50 better.

The AC servo will maintain any given rpm or load at about 10x faster rates than the 3-phase motor, and use the same 50:1 advantage in torque and reaction speed.
AC servos update at 500 kHz rates, VFDs at 1200 HZ, difference 40:1.
The AC servo will also use 3x nameplate power for upto 1.5 - 2 - 3 secs to deliver the commanded rpm/position/torque.
In effect, the AC servo has 3x nameplate power and more than 3x nameplate torque for over a second to overcome any load issues.

The AC servo typically at 10.000 counts/3000 rpm/500 kHz -100 counts error rate will fault at 0.2 ms, before any damage is done, in any hard mechanical crash.
(500 kHz / 100 = 5 kHz = 0.2 ms = 0.0002 s).

Got Link(s)?

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I posted a link to a Delta B2 series 2kW servo.

Delta is a Taiwanese brand made in China.
DMM is a Canadian brand made in China.

Both brands are good quality, performance, support and documentation. Both have free set up and tuning software, if you have not used servos before the set up software
will save you a lot of grief. Both brands are at very fair prices.

Yaskawa is probably the global leader in servos, top quality. That is reflected in their price, approx double Delta and DMM.

There are plenty of cheaper Chinese servos, for instance from the same supplier I linked to a brand called ToAuto. I have no reason to question the quality or
performance of such servos but the support may be questionable, the documentation is Chinglish and no set up and tuning software. If you are already
familiar with AC servos then that would be fine, but if you are not I would avoid them. Pay about 20% extra and get Delta or DMM.

Having just suggested that you not buy 'cheap' Chinese I saw this, its from the same company I buy Delta servos, so I have some history with this
company and always been good. This is a 2.3kW, or about 3hp, 220VAC servo, drive and cables for $395USD. Thats good buying, note that it goes
only to 1500rpm, so you'd have to gear it, but its got 15Nm cont torque.

https://www.fasttobuy.com/high-torqu...er_p35903.html

https://www.fasttobuy.com/Supply-asdab2-series_c498
https://www.dmm-tech.com/
https://www.fasttobuy.com/Supply-yaskawa-servo_c502
https://www.fasttobuy.com/Supply-toauto-servo_c440

Craig