Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?


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Thread: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

  1. #1

    Default Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    I recently received my Hitachi WJ 200 series (022SF) VFD and am preparing to set up the basic parameters.
    My question is which voltage to use for the AVR voltage select (Manual section C-7, setting A082).
    My spindle is stamped with 220VAC (Jianken JGL 80-2.2/24 ATC spindle), but the power in my home (Canada) that it will connect to is 240VAC.
    I was hoping someone could share if there a benefit or negative consequence of using one over the other, and explain what impact choosing each may have on the functioning of my spindle.
    Thank you.

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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Hi,
    commonly the power is +-6%, the difference between 220 and 240 is 8%. If the VFD is that tender that an extra 8% is going to ping it, then what do you suppose will happen when you decelerate the spindle quickly?
    A whole swag more than 8% voltage surge I'll be bound.

    If this were a cheap Chinese VFD, then you might want to be a bit more cautious, but a Hitachi should handle this no trouble.

    In New Zealand the power is 240VAC also, and I've run my Delta VFDs on it for years , so if Delta can handle it then so will Hitachi.

    Craig



  3. #3

    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Thank you Craig for your quick response and the sharing of your experience. I will start with 240VAC. The options for my VFD model are 200/215/220/230/240, and the reading I have done seems to indicate that choosing any one of those would be fine, as long as it is not over the actual voltage you are able to supply with your facility's power line.



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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Hi,
    lets say the incoming supply is 240VAC. When its rectified the peak voltage is:

    Vpeak=240 x square root (2)
    = 240 x 1.414
    =339.4V

    This will be smoothed by the DC link capacitors to 339VDC. That's the voltage the IGBTs or MOSFETS have to withstand.

    When the motor is decelerating it will generate voltage back into the VFD, and so when decelerating the withstand voltage will be even higher.
    If your VFD is equipped with a brake resistor a IGBT/MOSFET switch will connect the resistor direct across the DC bus to 'absorb' the extra voltage due to deceleration.
    The IGBT/MOSFET will turn on at somewhere between 385VDC and 400VDC depending on the manufacturer. Thus you see that the worst case withstand
    voltage is determined by the manufacturers choice of the brake threshold voltage, not really much to do with the line voltage at all.

    In absence of a brake resistor the voltage could go even higher, until its gets to about 20V more than the brake threshold voltage at which time the VFD will
    fault 'over voltage'. The VFD will stop trying to decelerate the spindle, but rather just let it coast to a stop. If you want to avoid nuisance trips, and especially
    as high voltage excursions can be devastating you are advised to allow the spindle to decelerate SLOWLY. If you want the spindle to accelerate up to speed
    fast then be prepared for big current surges, and if you want it to decelerate fast be prepared for big voltage surges.

    For production machines where cycle time is critical, that's the price you pay, as a hobbyist you can afford to be a bit more gentle with accel/decel demands.

    Craig



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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMToronto View Post
    I recently received my Hitachi WJ 200 series (022SF) VFD and am preparing to set up the basic parameters.
    My question is which voltage to use for the AVR voltage select (Manual section C-7, setting A082).
    My spindle is stamped with 220VAC (Jianken JGL 80-2.2/24 ATC spindle), but the power in my home (Canada) that it will connect to is 240VAC.
    I was hoping someone could share if there a benefit or negative consequence of using one over the other, and explain what impact choosing each may have on the functioning of my spindle.
    Thank you.
    Your input Voltage would be what ever your supply voltage is 240v the Parameter you set for your spindle will be 220v the VFD Drive will control the output voltage for your spindle which needs to be set at the 220volts

    Normally the AVR is not used for these high frequency Spindles, if you use this it has to be set A082=220

    If you read the manual on using AVR it will tell you this (If you enable this feature, be sure to select the proper voltage class setting for your motor.)

    Last edited by mactec54; 05-08-2022 at 11:16 AM. Reason: added more
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Hi,
    lets say the incoming supply is 240VAC. When its rectified the peak voltage is:

    Vpeak=240 x square root (2)
    = 240 x 1.414
    =339.4V

    This will be smoothed by the DC link capacitors to 339VDC. That's the voltage the IGBTs or MOSFETS have to withstand.

    When the motor is decelerating it will generate voltage back into the VFD, and so when decelerating the withstand voltage will be even higher.
    If your VFD is equipped with a brake resistor a IGBT/MOSFET switch will connect the resistor direct across the DC bus to 'absorb' the extra voltage due to deceleration.
    The IGBT/MOSFET will turn on at somewhere between 385VDC and 400VDC depending on the manufacturer. Thus you see that the worst case withstand
    voltage is determined by the manufacturers choice of the brake threshold voltage, not really much to do with the line voltage at all.

    In absence of a brake resistor the voltage could go even higher, until its gets to about 20V more than the brake threshold voltage at which time the VFD will
    fault 'over voltage'. The VFD will stop trying to decelerate the spindle, but rather just let it coast to a stop. If you want to avoid nuisance trips, and especially
    as high voltage excursions can be devastating you are advised to allow the spindle to decelerate SLOWLY. If you want the spindle to accelerate up to speed
    fast then be prepared for big current surges, and if you want it to decelerate fast be prepared for big voltage surges.

    For production machines where cycle time is critical, that's the price you pay, as a hobbyist you can afford to be a bit more gentle with accel/decel demands.

    Craig
    You made another real hash of this none relevant post, try and have some understanding of what AVR is before you post post

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by TMToronto View Post
    Thank you Craig for your quick response and the sharing of your experience. I will start with 240VAC. The options for my VFD model are 200/215/220/230/240, and the reading I have done seems to indicate that choosing any one of those would be fine, as long as it is not over the actual voltage you are able to supply with your facility's power line.
    No that could damage your Spindle motor to supply 240v to a 220v rated motor read the manual what AVR is for. this has nothing to do with the input supply voltage

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    WJ200s have a setting that prevents over-voltage during braking by modulating the rate of deceleration to limit the voltage. It works great, but be sure your application is not counting on stopping within a fixed time, because that time will be exceeded if the modulation activates.



  9. #9

    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    As always I appreciate the information you provided. I did read the manual section for the parameter, but when it stated 'correct voltage class' I understood that to mean the 200>240 options vs the 380>480 (400V class inverter settings) options, but I was still left unclear as to which within the class options. As you can imagine, the answers I have found online have been different, which is why I thought I would try on this forum as well. From your experienced answer, it looks like the voltage rating on my spindle - 220VAC - is the value to choose. Thank you.



  10. #10

    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Thank you for your response and for adding to my understanding of this feature.



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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    WJ200s have a setting that prevents over-voltage during braking by modulating the rate of deceleration to limit the voltage. It works great, but be sure your application is not counting on stopping within a fixed time, because that time will be exceeded if the modulation activates.
    Most Spindles will stop within 3 seconds without doing any DC Breaking changes, just leaving the VFD Drive at the Default settings is what should be used for these spindles, If you add a Breaking Resistor to the VFD Drive then you can activate /Setup the DC Braking

    Mactec54


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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Most Spindles will stop within 3 seconds without doing any DC Breaking changes, just leaving the VFD Drive at the Default settings is what should be used for these spindles, If you add a Breaking Resistor to the VFD Drive then you can activate /Setup the DC Braking
    That is not consistent with my experience. In fact, it’s the opposite. Most spindles, whether lathe or mill, with trip on over-voltage when trying to stop in 3 seconds from higher speeds. The cure is a braking resistor or longer deceleration.



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    Default Re: Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

    Quote Originally Posted by rklopp View Post
    That is not consistent with my experience. In fact, it’s the opposite. Most spindles, whether lathe or mill, with trip on over-voltage when trying to stop in 3 seconds from higher speeds. The cure is a braking resistor or longer deceleration.
    These are High speeds spindles 24,000RPM 400Hz not lathe or mill spindles first understand what the subject is about before posting about something totally different

    Mactec54


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Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?

Hitachi WJ200 VFD AVR voltage select - Should I choose 220VAC vs 240VAC?