CNC Spindle Motor - 2.2 KW Water cooled and VFD

[TMToronto]

One thing to be aware of is that the Mechatron VFDs will be for the European market, and they will be the 'E' models. If you are in NA you will be looking for the 'V1'.
Here is the response I got from Omron when asking about the differences...

The E and V1 version are exactly the same product
The only difference is the certifications and that labels in the connector for the E version are different
You can't buy an E ( European ) in Canada because this product doesn't have the certifications for the Canadian Market
You need to buy the V1 version, this is the inverter with the certifications for Canada and in general for all the continent of America

I 'could' have bought an 'E' model (as they were more readily available), but chose not to.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
here in New Zealand all electrical equipment is supposed to be 'CE' rated, which is a European standard. In the US and Canada the code is 'CSA', if memory
serves. There are small differences between the two standards but if its safe in the US then its also safe in Europe. I would not be concerned about operating
CSA equipment here for instance, at least from a safety point of view, however if there were ever an accident of any description then you have given an insurance company
an out.

Craig

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

would be really nice to get a far better quality unit if I can get a decent price.

I'm afraid to say that 970Euro IS a decent price for European made spindles, and compares favourably with most other European manufacturers but still way
less than HSD, made in Italy.

Have you priced Jianken? They are more expensive than the run of the mill Chinese stuff, but still much less than Mechatron for instance.

Craig

[mactec54]

Hi,
here in New Zealand all electrical equipment is supposed to be 'CE' rated, which is a European standard. In the US and Canada the code is 'CSA', if memory
serves. There are small differences between the two standards but if its safe in the US then its also safe in Europe. I would not be concerned about operating
CSA equipment here for instance, at least from a safety point of view, however if there were ever an accident of any description then you have given an insurance company
an out.

Craig

They have more EMI Filter requirements for the European standard, compared to the NA requirements so something that is rated for NA is not suitable for anywhere in Europe unless it is not inspected and installed by a back yard electrician that is not going to have the inspection done

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

They have more EMI Filter requirements for the European standard, compared to the NA requirements

You are correct, a CE rated device will have a two stage EMI filter at the input with at least two inductors whereas CSA rated device will often only have one inductor in its EMI filter.
Having said that there is really nothing 'unsafe' about either. If you plug in a CSA device in Europe its not going to kill anyone or vice-versa. In New Zealand it seems electrical inspectors
are anal-retentive types....is it the same in the US? Maybe its a required qualification for the job?

Craig

[mactec54]

Hi,



You are correct, a CE rated device will have a two stage EMI filter at the input with at least two inductors whereas CSA rated device will often only have one inductor in its EMI filter.
Having said that there is really nothing 'unsafe' about either. If you plug in a CSA device in Europe its not going to kill anyone or vice-versa. In New Zealand it seems electrical inspectors
are anal-retentive types....is it the same in the US? Maybe its a required qualification for the job?

Craig

It's really only the EMI rating they are after, not so much the install, although that has to be wired in a professional way, in the US anything goes if it has not been inspected, you see some of it here with Hobby installs, most would never pass inspection

[MaggieMarley]

Hi,

Just had a quote back form Mechatron.

They have quoted me for an Hitachi VFD (S1-SFE 2.2 kW) for 463 Euros. they also quoted for a brake resistor at 42 Euros but state its for the Omron MX2 VFD so I can only assume that this could be used on the Hitachi VFD?

The spindle model is HFS-802-24-ER20 which should work with the Hitachi VFD. Only issue the manual they sent me for the VFD is in German.
I have requested en English version because I could find one online for that exact model.

Any thoughts on this combination would be good to hear.

Thanks

Paul

[mactec54]

Hi,

Just had a quote back form Mechatron.

They have quoted me for an Hitachi VFD (S1-SFE 2.2 kW) for 463 Euros. they also quoted for a brake resistor at 42 Euros but state its for the Omron MX2 VFD so I can only assume that this could be used on the Hitachi VFD?

The spindle model is HFS-802-24-ER20 which should work with the Hitachi VFD. Only issue the manual they sent me for the VFD is in German.
I have requested en English version because I could find one online for that exact model.

Any thoughts on this combination would be good to hear.

Thanks

Paul

You should do a price check as that is not the normal price for that VFD Drive, these S1 series is a very basic model

The price should be 210 to 240 Euros depending on which model you go with the 2.2 / 3Kw would be the best model @ just under 240 Euros

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I agree with Matec54, 463 Euro is a little steep for an entry level Hitachi....on the other hand it will do as required, even a basic model will operate the spindle to your entire
satisfaction. To be honest I wouldn't be bothered with the brake resistor either, but you may have noticed that Mechatron offer two grades of ER collets, the top grade
have very low runout and I think are Rego-Fix, very very nice, get as many as you can afford.

Craig

[TMToronto]

I am not sure where you are located, but it looks like some US suppliers are getting the Hitachi WJ200 022SF VFDs (i.e., Drives warehouse $338 US). These I believe are the same as the Omron MX2 version, and a good match for that spindle. When Mechatron wrote back regarding VFDs they also mentioned the S1, which I found, I believe as the NE-S1 series here in NA. The comparable model (NES1 022SB) was about $283 US and it comes standard with a simple non-digital panel. The digital key pad add-on was an inexpensive upgrade. I believe the Mechatron spindles ship with a quality cable and connector, something that from my experience can easily add a few hundred dollars to the cost of some other spindles.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

I believe the Mechatron spindles ship with a quality cable and connector, something that from my experience can easily add a few hundred dollars to the cost of some other spindles.

That may be the case currently but it was not the case when I bought from Mechatron eight years ago. It must be said that I also bought the cheapest spindle they make, being all I could afford
at the time. The plug supplied was a nice quality, Cannon I think, but I fitted my own cable. I just used four core 1.5mm² cable, the sort of cable you would expect to be used for a light/med
duty 3 phase extension cable, ie not shielded, and certainly not hundreds of dollars. I'm still using it eight years later.

The only time I've had any noise issues is if I lay a signal cable adjacent to the spindle cable, not surprising really. Whether screening would mean that I could get away with what is really
just bad practice, I don't know. The biggest single thing I did to improve the electrical noise environment was to add a line reactor at the 230VAC input of the VFD, what few noise interference
issues I've ever had disappeared when I fitted a reactor, except as previously noted, namely bringing a signal cable in direct proximity to the spindle cable.

Craig

[mactec54]

I am not sure where you are located, but it looks like some US suppliers are getting the Hitachi WJ200 022SF VFDs (i.e., Drives warehouse $338 US). These I believe are the same as the Omron MX2 version, and a good match for that spindle. When Mechatron wrote back regarding VFDs they also mentioned the S1, which I found, I believe as the NE-S1 series here in NA. The comparable model (NES1 022SB) was about $283 US and it comes standard with a simple non-digital panel. The digital key pad add-on was an inexpensive upgrade. I believe the Mechatron spindles ship with a quality cable and connector, something that from my experience can easily add a few hundred dollars to the cost of some other spindles.

The WJ200 is not the same VFD Drive as the NES1 series the NES1 also has a Keypad added this photo

https://asb-drives.eu/equipment/freq/hitachi/s1/16691/

https://asb-drives.eu/equipment/freq/hitachi/s1/16692/

You can't get any better cable than what IGUS makes for these spindles, and it is not that expensive, around $3 a foot

[TMToronto]

"I am not sure where you are located, but it looks like some US suppliers are getting the Hitachi WJ200 022SF VFDs (i.e., Drives warehouse $338 US). These I believe are the same as the Omron MX2 version, and..."
I was not comparing it to the NE-S1

"...the NES1 also has a Keypad added this photo"
The price I quoted was for the NE-S1 'B' model which omits the digital pad.


"You can't get any better cable than what IGUS makes for these spindles,..."
I usually buy Igus (great Chainflex series cables and support), but went with a Lapp VFD cable for my current CNC build. Mine was more expensive (everything is more expensive in Canadian dollars) as I decided to include a wire pair for my ATC spindle thermistor.

Do keep posting your decisions and progress.

[rezwan96]

Hello,

I am sure this topic has been discussed many times over but I couldn't really find what I was searching for.

I have just more or less finished a long term home built / designed CNC build and now need to purchase a spindle motor.
After lots of reading and research, I have decided that a 2.2 KW water cooled spindle motor and matching VFD unit would suit my needs.

I am looking at something along the lines of what CNC4YOU sells in the UK.

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Spindle/Wa...VFD-plus-Mount

It would seem that all though similar units are available on eBay and Amazon and other such places for a lot lower cost it may be that what you actually get for your money can be a lot less in regards to build quality and also the actual components used, and of course their are many reports or fake devices out there which work but and far less superior in many respects, such as bearing quality, runout, VFD quality and control etc.

CNC4YOU say that the motor and VFD come direct from the actual manufacturer and and are fully tested, matched and setup ready to go and have been very well specified by them.

Really my question is what other options are available in the UK to purchase a good quality and reliable 2.2 KW spindle without having problems or buying something that may end up being false economy later on when they fail or become unreliable.

Any views or thoughts on this or suggestions about other makes or suppliers, which would be a good alternative to a lot of the mainstream far eastern spindles that seem to be everywhere. Or is it a case of that certain brands and suppliers of these are actually very good??

I am happy to purchase from CNC4YOU but just need to consider all options first to make sure I am making the right decision.

Thanks for your time .

Paul

You can check here. https://www.chinayongtao.com/product...tting-machine/
I think they have a solution for your problem.You can contact them and I think you won't be disappointed by their service.I've taken their service before.

[BHWorks]

Hi,



I'm afraid to say that 970Euro IS a decent price for European made spindles, and compares favourably with most other European manufacturers but still way
less than HSD, made in Italy.

Have you priced Jianken? They are more expensive than the run of the mill Chinese stuff, but still much less than Mechatron for instance.

Craig

Craig,
I have been evaluating 2.2 kw WC 80 mm spindles. I have looked at HY, Jianken, and Mechatron. The communication with Jianken has been okay. Jianken claims that they use ceramic bearings in their JGD-80/2.2 water cooled spindle. That caught my attention and I asked them about operating speed and their response was 10k to 24k rpm. In round numbers the Jianken is about half the price of a Mechatron. Mechatron has a constant torque at 6k to 24k rpm by comparison and is a three bearing spindle vs. Jianken's 4. Jianken will not provide a torque curve.

I am new to the spindle game. Do you have an opinion of Jianken vs. Mechatron ref. quality and value. I am cost conscious but I want to "buy once". BTW, I am in the US.

Thx, Alan

[MaggieMarley]

Craig,
I have been evaluating 2.2 kw WC 80 mm spindles. I have looked at HY, Jianken, and Mechatron. The communication with Jianken has been okay. Jianken claims that they use ceramic bearings in their JGD-80/2.2 water cooled spindle. That caught my attention and I asked them about operating speed and their response was 10k to 24k rpm. In round numbers the Jianken is about half the price of a Mechatron. Mechatron has a constant torque at 6k to 24k rpm by comparison and is a three bearing spindle vs. Jianken's 4. Jianken will not provide a torque curve.

I am new to the spindle game. Do you have an opinion of Jianken vs. Mechatron ref. quality and value. I am cost conscious but I want to "buy once". BTW, I am in the US.

Thx, Alan

Hi Alan,

Did you get any further with your choice of spindle motors? I had to put my purchase on hold for a while but I am back looking at getting one as soon as I decide what to go for. At the moment my choice is for the Mechatron but just wondered if you managed to dig up any further information or maybe you purchased one and now can give real first hand feedback.

Thanks

[mactec54]

Hi Alan,

Did you get any further with your choice of spindle motors? I had to put my purchase on hold for a while but I am back looking at getting one as soon as I decide what to go for. At the moment my choice is for the Mechatron but just wondered if you managed to dig up any further information or maybe you purchased one and now can give real first hand feedback.

Thanks

It all gets down to how much money you want to spend, ( don't forget the VFD Drive) both spindles will last the same, the bearings have a life depending on how it is used, Ceramic Bearings will last longer than regular AC steel Bearings, so if you have money to spend buy the more expensive overrated spindle, and you will be happy, the Jianken may last longer and will do the same job at more than half the cost, the quality won't be much different.

The other thing is what machine are you mounting it on, if the machine is not up to the spindle, then buy the spindle that suits your machine.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I have a Mechatron spindle and have used it extensively for seven years. Excellent quality.

I don't have a Jianken spindle, but there is a guy here in New Zealand (piotr fox wysocki) who has posted extensively on YouTube about his Jianken spindle, and he raves
about it.

Both brands are well and truly a step above the el-cheapo Chinese made hobby spindles, and I think either would be fine. In some respects the longevity or otherwise of
a spindle and its bearings depends on whether you can avoid serious crashes with it. One bad crash could wreck a spindle no matter it's quality.

Craig

[MaggieMarley]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your reply.
That's very true of course,if the spindle gets abused it won't last long. Only had once major crash so far and destroyed a dial gauge, that was shocking enough! Stupid mistakes can cost a fortune.
My machine is home designed / home build. Been over 3 years in the making. And spent far over and beyond what I wanted and should have spent on it. So did not really want to go cheap with the spindle which is the last item to buy.
Saying that though, I can't afford stupid money. Maybe around 1K Euros on the spindle and another 500 Euros on the VFD / other bits that I need, like cable and connectors etc.

I Also just came across the Spinogy XP004, which is similar in price to the Mechatron offering. But has a larger collet size.

I like the Mechatron setup with the ER20 which will allow up to 1/2" bits / tools, which is perfect.

I currently have a DeWalt hand router fitted as a test and to setup the CNC gantry etc, everything works find, just need a spindle.

I loaded the spindle mounting plate with around 8Kg+ and all axis still moved with no issues across the full travel of all axis.
So, hopefully a Mechatron size spindle shouldn't be an issue.

Need to have another looks at Jianken but I am tipping towards Mechatron. Think because of the fact they are only in Germany with good support etc and easy contact.
Tried to find a Jiaken outlet in Europe but couldn't find anywhere that looked suitable.

Like what you said, these are well above the lower end spindles that seem to be very common and I am sure once I buy one and get setup, I will wonder why I made so much fuss spending so long choosing what brand to go for.
As always, I spend far to long researching and reading up on these things instead of just getting on with it.

Thanks

Paul

[mactec54]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your reply.
That's very true of course,if the spindle gets abused it won't last long. Only had once major crash so far and destroyed a dial gauge, that was shocking enough! Stupid mistakes can cost a fortune.
My machine is home designed / home build. Been over 3 years in the making. And spent far over and beyond what I wanted and should have spent on it. So did not really want to go cheap with the spindle which is the last item to buy.
Saying that though, I can't afford stupid money. Maybe around 1K Euros on the spindle and another 500 Euros on the VFD / other bits that I need, like cable and connectors etc.

I Also just came across the Spinogy XP004, which is similar in price to the Mechatron offering. But has a larger collet size.

I like the Mechatron setup with the ER20 which will allow up to 1/2" bits / tools, which is perfect.

I currently have a DeWalt hand router fitted as a test and to setup the CNC gantry etc, everything works find, just need a spindle.

I loaded the spindle mounting plate with around 8Kg+ and all axis still moved with no issues across the full travel of all axis.
So, hopefully a Mechatron size spindle shouldn't be an issue.

Need to have another looks at Jianken but I am tipping towards Mechatron. Think because of the fact they are only in Germany with good support etc and easy contact.
Tried to find a Jiaken outlet in Europe but couldn't find anywhere that looked suitable.

Like what you said, these are well above the lower end spindles that seem to be very common and I am sure once I buy one and get setup, I will wonder why I made so much fuss spending so long choosing what brand to go for.
As always, I spend far to long researching and reading up on these things instead of just getting on with it.

Thanks

Paul

Just because it has a collet size up to 1/2" don't think for a minute you will be able to cut aluminum with a 1/2" endmill at the speeds it has for max and minimum, wood and plastic should be fine with the bigger cutters.